Grey Parronts' Opinions Please:

[radiogirl995]

I am reading/following Bobbi Brinker's "For The Love of Greys" for training Tuki. She recommends NEVER letting your Grey come out of the cage on their own, but to remove them by stepping up or toweling.

In various places on this board, folks recommend letting a bird (whatever breed) come out at it's own pace -- especially for rehomed birds.

I'd like to get opinions on this...
is it bad?

[Mammabird]

She is not the only person to recommend this, don't remember the titles but have read it in at least 2 other books. I allow my birds to come out on their own. One reason is that most birds are territorial about their cages and don't want to step up. You might get bitten, hissed at, hacked at etc. If your bird does that towards you, you can't back down and pull your hand back. If you do the bird just learned a big "WOW! If I do that I can intimidate her, control her etc. etc. etc." You have to follow thru, if you don't you are giving the bird the wrong message so if the bird won't step up you have no alternative but to towel it to get it out. In my own personal opinion, Grey's are too sensitive to be treated like that, and more importantly they can hold a grudge. My own personality is one that prefers to avoid confrontations. I also think the best way to prevent biting from becoming a problem is to avoid situations where you know you are going to get bitten. If you don't handle the bite right and the bird gets a drama reward you will soon have a biting problem. It might not be what the experts recommend but I have no problem with my birds considering their home their castle. They are all sweet birds, I can clean the cages without a single problem. If someone is in a situation where their bird is so cage aggressive they can't properly maintain the cage that is a different situation. I think it's up to the personality of the parront and the parrot to decide what works best for them.

[grandma]

I never close my fids cages...they come and go as they please and they will step up in or out of the cage. Guess it all depends on the bird.

[TooLover]

Originally Posted by radiogirl995

I am reading/following Bobbi Brinker's "For The Love of Greys" for training Tuki. She recommends NEVER letting your Grey come out of the cage on their own, but to remove them by stepping up or toweling.

In various places on this board, folks recommend letting a bird (whatever breed) come out at it's own pace -- especially for rehomed birds.

I'd like to get opinions on this...
is it bad?

My opinion, either it be greys, cockatoos, macaws, etc.... is that their cage is their home. I am not going to "remove" them against their will. We open the cage doors when we are home to supervise, and let them come out when they want to come out. I don't want to take away the security of their "homes" by making them come out when I want them out. Just my opinion

[Conure & Macaw Mom]

Same here. If I'm cleaning the house or doing something else, I just open the door & let them come out if they want to & they always do. lol But they will always step up for me as well if I put my hand in there. Crystal

[cfulhage]

Well I guess I have a differing view on this. Yes, their cage is their home, but we can't promote bad behavior. If your bird could only learn ONE thing, I'm sure you would want it to be the "step up" command. This is a very basic command that many breeders instill in their babies before they can even perch properly. A bird should ALWAYS step up for you (unless they are ill or injured), whether they be high up on a play gym, wandering somewhere they shouldn't be, or in their cage.

By letting Tuki come out on his own, you would be showing him that he doesn't need to follow the step up command. He needs to know that the only way he is going to get to come out is by performing this one thing that should be expected of him. *I am not speaking of those birds who already know the step up command. I often just open Ollie's cage door and let her come out on her own, but only because I KNOW that if I reached for her, she would step up.*

I suggest either wrapping an ace bandage around your arm to get him to step up until he learns his manners, or use a towel. The towel shouldn't be a punishment, just a matter of fact this is how its going to be unless you step up sort of thing, so once he is out give him lots of loves. Once Tuki is stepping up a high percentage of the time you ask him to, THEN let him start coming out on his own sometimes. JMHO, based on my experience with Ollie, and the things I've read from books.

[littlecharlietoo]

In our house it depends...
Some of our parrots are physically and psychologically capable of stepping up out of their cages. These guys are expected to step up nicely from their cages, playtops and gyms. We are reasonable and don't expect them to leave if they are eating, playing or otherwise busy inside. After all, I don't answer the phone when I'm eating and get pretty grumpy when someone interrupts me while I'm otherwise occupied. We respect them, but at the same time it's a very good thing to teach positive behaviors. Stepping up without biting is one of those and the majority of birds can learn that and should.

One of our flock is a recovering phobic. Due to her severe issues, we simply ask her to step up and if she retreats, we don't push it. However, with her it isn't a dominance struggle or even an "I don't wanna'"... it's a very real fear for her safety and I think fear should always be respected with a parrot. One of our birds is blind and has physical handicaps. He doesn't feel comfortable "stepping up", but will let you pick him up if you gently take one of his feet in your hand. We don't push it, but will offer to help him out every day. Some days it's a yes, other it's a no.

Bottom line, if your bird doesn't have issues then I strongly suggest you being step up training. Does she step up when away from the cage?? If so, you have an alternative to toweling or other removal... you can see if you can use treats, etc to coerce her onto a moveable stand from her cage and then move that stand into another room. Practice step ups, treating and rewarding and then carry her back and let her step down into her cage. Then she learns that you will return her to the cage... after a while, you can try stepping up from the stand while near the cage and then from the cage top and eventually inside. I'm more for positive reinforcement than any sort of forcing when possible, but I think the ace bandage idea is a very good one too. Avoid a bite if you can and when you can't, protect yourself so you don't show any fear. Greys are more than smart enough to learn simple behaviors like stepping up.

Another thing to think about is the life skills you're passing on to your parrot. I've seen first hand what happens when a parrot is given up that refuses to step up... potential adopters just keep walking. It's our job as owners to give our parrots the skills to live with other people should something happen to us. I've got for the Love of Greys too and it's a good resource, but I don't agree with everything she says. I think it's a really good thing to teach a grey to step up out of it's cage... you just have to keep your ego in check and make sure that you're being reasonable.

[natzback]

ooohhhhh - good advice on the ace bandage - never thought of that one! It's close to skin tone - or vet wrap.
I think it's better than them "fearing" the towel, which is used for nail clips, etc.

[cfulhage]

Originally Posted by littlecharlietoo

Another thing to think about is the life skills you're passing on to your parrot. I've seen first hand what happens when a parrot is given up that refuses to step up... potential adopters just keep walking. It's our job as owners to give our parrots the skills to live with other people should something happen to us. I've got for the Love of Greys too and it's a good resource, but I don't agree with everything she says. I think it's a really good thing to teach a grey to step up out of it's cage... you just have to keep your ego in check and make sure that you're being reasonable.

Completely agree with all of this!! Because Tuki is very young (and has no psychological/past abuse issues), he should be taught NOW how to learn to step up. It will just get harder the longer its put off.

[greyburd]

I also have my guys step up onto my hand to come out of their cages. I want them to rely on me to get from point A to point B. Neither of them are aggressive. And they have learned that I am the taxi. In and out of the cage and from room to room (except when Tristan comes into the kitchen when I'm in there ). This also ensures that I am handling them in some form or another, everyday!!