very ill bird...LONG

[Aimee72]

Hi, I was asked to post to this board after leaving this message in another forum. I'm hoping to find some guidance from other African Grey owners. I have three African Greys, two of which I have had for several years and have never had any problems, then I have "Baby" who is a rescue with some very severe problems.
Baby was rescued from a family member almost a year ago since she was doing so poorly at the time. My family member bought her from a breeder when she was a baby and she appeared to be normal at that time except for an abnormally large beak. She was seen by a vet regularly and he didn't seem to have concerns at that time. Around six months later Baby's health deteriorated for whatever reason and when she was seen by the vet he could not believe the difference in her. He thought she would die on the table while he was examining her. He thought maybe she had Beak and Feather Disease or some other horrible illness so he ran every test imaginable on her. All test were negative so he thought she would benefit from "Pluck No More" for the feather picking and mutilation. This did help improve her condition for a short time but she progressively became worse, quit talking and started screaming and throwing herself around violently in her cage. No one could have any kind of contact with this bird. My family member no longer had the energy or the knowledge to deal with her so that's when she came to live with me.
I strongly suspect this bird was screamed at and possibly grabbed or hit by someone in her former home making her extremely fearful of people and hands. I add this not to lay blame on the former owner (because I know she wasn't the one who would have mistreated the bird but was still responsible for it's well being...that's another story and I don't want to open up that can of worms right now) but only because I will also need advice on how to get this bird over this trauma.
After she moved to my house her behavior didn't change. She did find comfort in being with my other birds but that's really the only improvement. I took her to my avian vet immediately and she was very concerned. She took Baby to surgery right away and removed feathers which were growing incorrectly. While the bird was under she was able to do a thorough examination and she discovered such severe scarring that she thought the bird must be several years old (Baby was around 1 at the time). I assured her that I had seen this bird as a baby and was sure of her age. So having done what she could at the time she prescribed pain medication, antibiotics and sent our baby home with us.
We went back for a follow up visit a few days later and she put a collar on Baby and told us that she was suffering from a defect much like Down's Syndrome in humans. She explained that her feet are deformed, her feathers don't grow right, her beak is deformed, her wings are contractured, and she has mental defecits. She prescribed her Prozac to try and calm her down and sent us home.
After giving her medication several times a day for about a week it became impossible to administer the meds anymore. The bird was harming herself so much by throwing herself around before and after the medicine that I felt we were doing more harm than good.
We go back to the vet (just in case I haven't been clear about this thus far, this is an excellent vet that has done everything to try and help this bird, I have just tried to shorten this already too long message by hitting on only important statements from her). So anyway, we talk to the vet and I explain to her that the bird is harming herself so badly by throwing these fits. (I'm talking blood splatter on the walls) She is becoming so traumatized that we can longer even handle her and I thought maybe she should be taken care of by someone more qualified. She told me that she would rather the bird be put to sleep than to see her go through another change that would only traumatize her further. There is nothing we could do except give her meds in her drinking water and just love her from a distance. We all thought she probably wouldn't live very long because she wouldn't stop the self mutilation (collar was removed to try to calm her down) and an infection seemed almost certain to take her. The idea was to make her as comfortable as possible, give her whatever she wanted and let nature take its course...
So that takes us to now. It has been several months. Baby is no better but she is no worse. The family member who had her originally thinks I should put her to sleep because she thinks she is suffering but I just can't do that. I understand that Baby is crippled and pitiful looking and to someone that isn't with her all the time it seems she only has a miserable life. I see the things that others don't see, she does have a personality. She loves to eat and she actually eats more than my other two birds do and is not nearly as picky. She wobbles across the room to watch her favorite movie everytime it is turned on. Whistles at people she likes (mostly strangers who have never given her medication) and will even let small children pet her. She adores my other two birds and watches them with fascination. But the down side, she has to live in a playpen like enclosure because she harms herself on cages (climbs up the side, then falls down), doesn't play with toys, and doesn't want to be touched because it hurts. She is terrified of hands. She has wounds that she constantly picks at, one under her leg so bad that about a week ago she could hardly walk.
She has stopped plucking so severely since being removed from the cage and her wounds are starting to heal a bit. She was tested for zinc and lead poisoning so if the cage was the problem then I think it must have been a psychological problem (i.e. being scared of being injured on the bars or being afraid of heights from falling) rather than a poisoning. As I said before she is living in somewhat a playpen right now which pretty much gives her access to walk around the room during the day and then blocked into a smaller area at night. This is of course a temporary situation that we are trying just to get her out of the cage and get her to calm down. As you can imagine this is quite messy and we have to come up with another idea quickly.
As a last ditch effort I'm hoping one of you has seen or heard of a similar situation and maybe we have just overlooked something that can help her. Any suggestions about anything I've talked about will be appreciated. I dream of this bird being well again...I don't care if she talks or has feathers just that she is happy and free of pain.
Thanks in advance,
Aimee
P.S. Has anyone used the products from avianmedicinechest.com?

[The Outlaw]

Aimee:

You really have a lot on your plate. Sometimes, all you can do is pick them up, dust them off, and send them back into life.

You didn't mention how often you showered her? Also, how many hours of light is she exposed to?

Do you feed a fresh diet? By that I mean one of fresh foods, a little seed, some protein and starches? Do you feed pellets at all?

I always start with diet. I feed a fresh diet, no pellets and follow the advice of Carolyn Swicegood's Land Of Vos (www.landofvos.com). She really has done extensive work in the nutritional needs of parrots.

Also, I wouldn't medicate unless you fully understand what her problem is. It seems vague to me, JMHO, and with the possible exception of hollistic treatment, I'd be very careful.

How about starting by offering her cold, freshly brewed chamomille tea in place of water? It has calming effects on many animals. Check out our recipes section and look up Liss's Kitchen Sink. Make up a batch and give it a try. If she's not used to fresh foods, it will take a while for her to understand that this is food. The less additives, the better, in my opinion, when you are dealing with sickly birds. You can add to her diet and watch how each new food effects her.

You must understand this, however: she may ALWAYS be as she is today. I have one plucker and its tough, but I adore her. She is what she is.

[FeatherLover]

Aimee,

I don't have any words of wisdom, but what I can offer you is encouragement. For what it's worth, you are doing what a lot of people would never do; thank you for saving her from her previous situation.

Nancy's (THE OUTLAW) diet suggestion is a good one, especially since Baby, as you said, is an eater.

Please keep us updated and know we're here to listen and help wherever possible.

[Lisa B]

Aimee, thank you for coming over here and posting. there is a wealth of knowledge in the people here, and like I said in the emails, maybe someone here will have some helpful advice. I know you'll find comfort here.
I'm going to watch the others to see what they suggest, and some research is being done to see if there is info we can find to help you. I will forward this post to the person we discussed too, to distribute.
You are probably going to have to build some sort of plexiglass enclosure for Baby, so she keeps things neat. She would probably really like that as well.
Hang in there...we;re here for ya!

[Baby5566]

I almost cried when I read that, you are such a sweet person Aimee and you have such a big heart for taking in such a sad bird.

Actually while I was working in a breeding warehouse/bird shop I knew a bird like that. Her name was Princess and she was an African Grey. She abused herself very badly, she plucked herself until she didnt have any feathers left, she bit her wings and she slammed her head on the cage. She was very abused as a baby, the breeder abused her because she wouldnt take to hand feeding. I dont want to go into detail because it's very gruesome, it involves breaking wings and well I'm not going into it.
Princess was a sweet bird from afar, she would say "hello" and she would whistle, but we couldnt touch her.
One of the other trainers decided to start trying to train her, he was bitten like crazy but after a while she learned that he was safe. He coaxed her with pomegranate seeds and melon.
Princess ended up killing herself one night while she was alone at the shop. She had been custom built a beautiful plexiglass cage so she couldnt hurt herself but there's nothing you could do about her beak and we found her one morning. Sometimes the bird will never get better but Princess did try, and your bird is trying too.

[Tiki]

This just really breaks my heart-to wonder what these poor birds have been through to make them so fearful of humans and to mutilae themselves. I have never been in that situation of taking in a rescue bird like that, it's not so prevalent in Australia. I do see stories like this all the time on Birdboard though. You can't undo the past, you just have to try to get the bird to trust you somehow so he knows he is safe and loved.

[Doyle'sMommy]

That breaks my heart. Poor baby. Thanks you for taking good care of her! Sorry I have no advice. Tiffany

[Graehstone]

Aimee, lots of hugs coming your way for doing what you are. It's tough and can get tougher but in my oh so small opinion there is no greater return than the love of a Grey.
This is going to be a lifelong commitment and not one that many folks would willingly walk into so you are to be commended to the highest degree.
The only other thing that I might be able to add is to always let your sweety know that they are not alone, that they are not abandoned and that should they need something that you will be there. Just lots of love and tons of patience I think would do many good things here.
Great big hugs from my little flock to you and yours and we'll be keeping our fingers and whatnot's crossed for all of you.

[Machelle]

This absolutely breaks my heart! I am so sorry that this bird is going through this but I'm very thankful that you are helping him. I know its been almost a year and there's no improvement but you said its no worse either. I have read stories where its taken a bird 3 or 4 years to fully trust their human. I know its hard but maybe he/she just needs more time. Birds are slow to trust anyway but greys are especially hard. Throw abuse in there and it takes that much longer. Only you can decide how much you can do. LIke Nancy siad, it never change, but there is always the chance that ti will. I can see how rough it is and you are a remarkable person for doing what you can. Nancy's suggestions are wonderful. I agree with what she said and the only advice I can give is give it more time if you can. LIke I said, I've read stories where its taken a few years before a positive change is seen. I wish you much luck and I give you many many *hugs*

[sammiesue]

I have 2 blue and golds and I have a african grey which I am selling for a friend. I wish I could keep her but my babies will not let me. This African Grey is the smartiest bird I have ever seen and she is only 3 years old. I would do the same thing that you are doing. Thats why I have this African Grey now. My friend could not take care of her. I have always feed my macaws baby food so that they would get the vitamins they need. I mix the baby food with a little baby ceral in the morning and heat it up for 15 seconds. What they do not eat I will save it and the next day heat it up for 30 or 35 seconds and they just love it. My vet, who is a bird doctor in Milford Ohio, says that this is ok to feed them the baby food plus they get the vitamins they need and no suger. At lunch I give them a jar of sweet potatos or corn or chicken and vegs. I heat that up for 15 seconds also. They love it. They are healthy. They still eat some fruit and seed also. What I was getting at is if you have to give the bird meds then try giving it to her in the baby food with a baby droper. You can find them in the baby items for 99 cents. The African grey I have hear watched my other two macaws eating from the droper and now she does it. It is a great way to get them to take their meds or vitamins. Good luck to you and I thank God for people like you who care about these birds. I am the same way.