Is it enough for them?

[siawyuan]

hi, i got one pair of congo african grey.Normally i gave them fresh food(Apple,Banana,Papaya.....)in the morning and the evening. One day 2 meal, similar like my other pets.I didn't leave food all day long(4 hours for each meal).Is it enough for them?

If i leave sunflower seed for them all the year, it will be not good for their health.
Is it got any seed tht can replace sunflower seed?

[SunConure1]

feed him a good quailty bird seed like cockatiel or some other kind of parrot seed. Give him/her good quailty bird seed every day and also give fresh fruit and vegies daily remeber to remove un eatten fruit and vegies in 4 hours.

[SavvyMoon]

Originally Posted by siawyuan

hi, i got one pair of congo african grey.Normally i gave them fresh food(Apple,Banana,Papaya.....)in the morning and the evening. One day 2 meal, similar like my other pets.I didn't leave food all day long(4 hours for each meal).Is it enough for them?

If i leave sunflower seed for them all the year, it will be not good for their health.
Is it got any seed tht can replace sunflower seed?

They should be fed a *good* seed blend, one you can get from any petstore.
It should say "for parrots" or "for Medium size Hookbills" on the bag. May even have a picture of an African Grey on it. :icon_smil
Mix this bag of seeds with a similar size bag of pellets.
(also choose the pellets best suited for African Greys)
This should be available for them to eat All Day long,
while still giving the morning and afternoon meals of fruits and veggies.

Fill the feeding bowl with seed/pellets only half way, and every morning when they get their fresh meal, dump out the remaining seed blend and refill with fresh.
If there is very little or no seed/pellet mix left at all in the morning (or evening), then they aren't getting enough. Fill the bowl all the way.

If you'd rather not "waste" the unfinished seed/pellets, you can do what I do and collect them in some sort of container for a few days and then throw them outside on the ground for wild birds and squirrels and such.

Also, invest in a gram scale and weigh your birds on a regular basis.
Especially the first year you have them to get an idea and baseline as to what their normal (healthy) weight should be and if they are eating enough and eating correctly. Have they seen an avian vet yet?

Are you planning on breeding this pair? I don't know diddly about breeding birds, (well, maybe a little... but not much!) so I don't know what exactly
you should do 'extra' for them as far as diet and all while they are in breeding season.... but I'm sure there are folks here who do! :icon_smil

Savvy*

[emmalou]

Can I ask you Savvy, you mention to mix the seed mix with pellet and this is what I've been doing. I've recently been told that I'm *wrong wrong wrong* and should be giving my Grace no seed at all or at most only once every other day or so.

I'm actually very glad to hear that someone else subscribes to feeding somewhat the same way I do so I'm wondering what your opinion is of "all pellet diet"'s are? I've tried to switch my Grace to only pellets and frankly she seemed depressed. I've now went back to her normal 30% quality seed mix/ 70% zupreem pellet diet for her available all day with veggie/fruit/bread/etc available 2-3x a day per usual. I'm confused. It seems you're damned if you do, damned if you don't ya know? I'm pretty new at all these controversies. I want so badly to do what's best but it's tough to know what's best.

[Monica]

If it is possible one of the best diets to feed is something similar to 50% veggies, 20% cooked food, 15% fruit, 10% eggs, breads, beans, pasta, 5% seeds, with seeds being fed every other day. This may vary greatly from person to person and bird to bird. If fresh and cooked foods take up atleast 75% or more of the birds diet then they shouldn't need to eat pellets, though if fed 50% or less fresh/cooked foods then pellets may actually help supplement the diet.

Many people suggest not to mix pellets and seeds because the birds usually tend to pick the seeds out, though if the bird is fed pellets more often than seeds, then seeds should be given as a nighttime snack just before bedtime only.

Many people have different opinions as to which diet is the optimum for a bird, though I have heard that ekkies and greys shouldn't be fed very many pellets (more so on the ekkies however). If you may be confused about a healthy diet you can ask an a-vet or several what would be the optimum diet to feed certain species. This post though was just something to give you a little to think about.

[SavvyMoon]

Originally Posted by emmalou

Can I ask you Savvy, you mention to mix the seed mix with pellet and this is what I've been doing. I've recently been told that I'm *wrong wrong wrong* and should be giving my Grace no seed at all or at most only once every other day or so.

I'm actually very glad to hear that someone else subscribes to feeding somewhat the same way I do so I'm wondering what your opinion is of "all pellet diet"'s are? I've tried to switch my Grace to only pellets and frankly she seemed depressed. I've now went back to her normal 30% quality seed mix/ 70% zupreem pellet diet for her available all day with veggie/fruit/bread/etc available 2-3x a day per usual. I'm confused. It seems you're damned if you do, damned if you don't ya know? I'm pretty new at all these controversies. I want so badly to do what's best but it's tough to know what's best.

Ah well one thing it is, is controversial! LOL
I believe, (IMO) an all-pellet diet - and by that I mean 90-100% pellets with fresh or cooked foods being a very small part of the daily diet- is nothing more than a very convincing marketing ploy by pellet companies.
It kind of follows the line of marketing stategy that tells people that Total cereal contains "All we need" for daily nutrition. :icon_smil

Well it may contain all our daily requirements, but would *you* eat Total and only Total every day, day in and day out? Didn't think so. ;-)

There was a time -not so long ago- when most companion birds were NOT fed well.... people thought dumping some cheap, old seeds that sat on a store shelf somewhere for 12 months, or feeding birds all ONE TYPE of seed, like sunflower seeds, was all they needed. In the last 8-10 yrs huge strides have been made in the knowledge base of how to formulate a successful, healthy diet for our birds.

I believe the invention of Pellets, and instituting an "all pellet" rule of thumb,
was/is a very extreme overcompensation for the "bad seed" diet we were
trying to replace.

After a few years, it was becoming apparent that all-pellet diets
can be just as UN-healthy for some birds, as a crappy seed diet with
no fresh or cooked food supplementation.
Eclectus being one of them. Worst thing for an Ekkie is a daily diet consisting of any more than 25% pellets.
African Greys, too. More and more, all-pellet diets are being linked to plucking and/or otherwise less than healthy or happy birds.

Now this isn't to say that there's no place in the birds' diet for pellets.
I think in a 50/50 proportion for most birds, they supplement the other foods and seeds fed quite well. But for Ekkies and Greys, stick to 25% -or less- pellets.

Back when a 'seed diet' meant one or two kinds of seeds, now it means a seed "blend".
Read the ingredients on any decent brand of medium or large hookbill seed... You'll see it contains at *least* 5 different types of seeds along with; oats, peanuts, whole corn, cracked corn, split peas, dried diced pineapple, diced apples, raisins, pumpkin seed, celery, green peppers, chilis, etc.
So assume when someone tells you to feed seeds and pellets,
that's the kind of seed blend they are talking about.

As far as birds eating only the seeds and throwing away all the pellets,
well, I've never seen that happen with my birds. Oh they have their favorite things, that's for sure. (My birds hate bananas, won't eat them at all. Three birds all tossing banana slices everywhere! LOL) So picking and choosing will occur no matter what. That's the way birds are.
But then again, there are many, many birds who refuse, absolutely REFUSE
to convert to a pellet diet. Especially the "most healthy" types of pellets- with no colors, no flavor and no appeal to them at all- like Harrisons pellets, or the other "all natural" ones.
We're back to that Total cereal concept again....

LOL

Savvy*

[Leon]

I was at first not going to reply, then I got upset over the replies...

My Grey LOVES cheese, milk, chillies, curry etc. When I give him something new to eat, and he does not like it, he pulls the most awful face, and next time I come near with the same stuff he pulls a face before he even tastes it. And most of all he LOVES a Chicken or Lamb-chop bone.

Like us they also have personal tastes.

If you are young, and get told you may add 5 years to your expected 70 years of life, by eating a balanced diet of only pellets, what would you say??

I am sure you would NOT eat the pellets. In my book the same goes for the Gray. I live in Africa, and have seen Greys in the wild ( although sadly they are getting scarce in the wild ). They eat EVERYTHING. I was told by a Game Ranger that they seldom bother to eat seeds as there is enough other food in the rainforest for them.

My Grey is 4 years old and according to the Avian Vet I take him to, one of the healthiest birds he has seen. He eats whatever I eat ( except for Avo and lettuce ). In the morning he shares my bowl of Muesli ( I feed him with a small spoon ), and at night I cut and mash the same food as we eat for him. I again feed him with a spoon - I know this is unnessasary, but we both enjoy the interaction.

:aiwebs_02 ( a tip : Greys like HOT food mine prefers his supper so hot it almost burns my lips - as soon as it gets cold he refuses to eat it, until i add some boiling water, or warm it up in the micro )

I have moddeled my bird's diet on that of my Uncle, whose bird is almost 50 years old. ( funny one - they called him Oubaas ( which means old-man in our language called Afrikaans ( which is similar to Dutch )) and at 40 years of age "he" laid an egg!!! ).

PLEASE, PLEASE do not feed your bird tasteless pellets. In my opinion that is animal abuse. Remember you are dealing with an animal with above-average intelligence, who has his/her own character and preferences.

please read : Sound Nutrition: the Key to a Healthy Grey By Margaret T. Wright, An article from The Grey Play Round Table® : WWW.AfricanGreys.com

she says : ( and I quote ):

"A diet that is as organic and preservative/processed food free as possible is best. Also, there needs to be a balance of vegetables/fruits, seeds/nuts/grains and pellets, if you’re not doing the total holistic route of the Mash Diet. A diet that is as varied as possible is best, as a diet that focuses JUST on seed is not nutrient sufficient. In contrast, one that focuses mostly on pellets may also prove to be detrimental, as the synthetic nutrients in them can act more like drugs than nutrients, potentially resulting in physical damage or disease (see "Why Food is Better than Pellets" article in African Grey Facts Section). If you do feed your Grey a pelleted diet, Avian Holistic Health Consultant Alicia McWatters recommends the following general guideline: vegetables 30%; legumes 20%; pellets 20%; seeds/nuts 15%; fruits 10%; and grains 5%. The FACT is that the avian nutrition field is too new and NO ONE knows all the answers, so please look at it conservatively."

I believe in giving him as wide a variety as possible. As a family we only eat fresh veg and lost of fruit anyway, so it is easy for us.

:icon_smil I LOVE MY BIRD!!! :icon_smil

[SavvyMoon]

Originally Posted by Leon

I was at first not going to reply, then I got upset over the replies...

Hi Leon,
I'm not sure which replies 'upset' you so... but perhaps you misunderstood?
None of us are pushing an all-pellet diet. No one said pellets should be more than 50% of the bird's diet - at most.

You stated near the end of your message that you and your family eat almost all fresh and natural fruits and veggies, and that your Grey shares meals with you all the time and enjoys his food and is healthy. That really is wonderful! :icon_smil

However here, in the USA, most of us eat foods that are processed, and/or sprayed, or enhanced genetically, or injected with dyes and/or hormones, etc.
Many of us eat (way too many!) pre-packaged foods, high in salt or sugar and artificial flavors and chemicals. Most of us eat stuff that isn't healthy for US, or our own KIDS... never mind our birds!

So In My Opinion, feeding a companion bird a controlled, chemical free diet of seeds and pellets -mixed at a proper ratio for the specific bird(s) we're feeding- along with daily portions of veggies and fruits and good snacks, is probably BETTER for them in the long run, than feeding them a diet of 75% or more "people food".
Many American families rarely sit down and share fully home cooked meals anymore. We eat on the run, we eat "fast food"... basically we eat like crap. :icon_eek:



I keep thinking of more to say... must be the extra coffee this morning! :icon_wink

I have a Timneh Grey, she's 13 yrs old, but I've had her only 5 months.
She's healthy as can be... trusting, loving and well, I can go on and on about what a terrific bird she is. (But I'll spare you all!)
She absolutely refuses to eat the cooked, all natural, healthy birdy meals I feed my other two birds. At least so far, she refuses.
I've served it to her warm, hot, cool, mixed with her favorite crunchy treats, etc. Won't touch it.
My other birds gobble it up like there's no tomorrow.
She was raised on 30% seed blend and 70% colored fruity pellets,
with daily portions of fruit and veggies and other snacks and foods.
The only thing I have done with her is wean her off some of the more unhealthier type snacks she was getting too much of, and onto more healthier treats and snacks. AND I've changed the ratio to about 60% seed mix and 40% pellets.
But otherwise, she's set in her ways it seems.
:icon_smil

[Adi]

I use pellets as a compliment to Sunny's diet. They have their own seperate dish in his cage and he can eat them as a snack during the day if I am not there to give him anything else. They are practical in the sense that he does indeed like them and they will not spoil if I am not there to remove them like should be done with fresh foods.

That's the only down side that I see to serving fresh foods. You have to be present to remove them due to bacteria growth. Generally Sunny will take his time eating and playing in between. If I have to go out to run errands, sometimes fresh is not a good idea! So he gets fresh when I am around, including some Beak Appetit practically every morning, other than that he gets Avicakes and Nutraberries. The pellets are always there, whether he choses to eat them or not.

[Leon]

My apologies, for getting upset, I got the impression that some people were advocating a diet of pellets only.

I must say we in South Africa have it good! we do have a serious crime problem, but who does not? Fresh food is VERY cheap here. my wife purchases fresh vegetables and food daily from a green grocer near us.

It is sad to hear that in the USA you tend to eat on the run. it is also happening here; my eldest son lives like that. in my home though we sit down to supper every night. Of course Dodi, my Grey gets fed before I eat. He is a Ghana Grey, quite small light in color with a very vivid red tail.

We got him at the age of about 4 weeks - far too young actually - he could not yet walk and only had down feathers. We were scared of feeding him with a tube, so we used a spoon.

I tried to imitate his mother, by touching the spoon to my lips first, then I would tip it into his mouth, and touch my mouth to his. He is 4 years old now, and I still feed him the same way! We both love it.