Would u bring home a un weaned baby?

[Tiki]

Karol, there is just so much that can go wrong with handfeeding. I would leave him with the breeder until he is fully weaned. He will still bond to you when you bring him home!

[Karol]

I can not THANK YOU ALL ENOUGH for your advice.

I have decided to leave Bella where she is until she is fully weaned.

I would not be able to live with myself if something went wrong with her.

Again, Thanks for all of the replies here.

[Cindy215]

Originally Posted by SDavid

Cindy215:

Thank you for a great response. It was very informative. Definately a bit of an eye-opener and food for thought. Yes, I'm sure money plays a big role and stores definately need alot of turnover (unfortunately at the expense of the birds). I can see how spending all that time with a young bird is not practical for the store that needs to pay it's bills (to move merchandise so to speak). But, I was not offered any sort of "deal" or anything to take her unweaned. That would have been an indication to me that taking an unweaned bird was a bad thing and I wouldn't have done it. The money was not a big issue for me especially when it comes to a living thing. In the end, me and my wife trusted the person who hatches them and sells them. We did what he told us.

In many stores that I've seen, there are young un-weaned birds that are kept seperate from their own kind throughout their weaning. So, I guess, even at the facility you can't be sure that weaning is being done properly. From what I can see anyway.

I started the "What does your Timneh eat" thread because of a problem I am having that may be the result of what youre saying. I mean about her not being around others of her kind long enough to learn how to do certain things. But, of course, I can't say that for sure. For one, I don't know how often the behavioral problems that you mention develop in birds that actually were properly weaned. It would be an interesting study (if it hasn't already been done) to see if it's "cause and effect." I always thought that behavioral problems were more a result of them being in our homes (and not getting their needs met) rather than from imporper weaning.

I don't think anyone can quantify problems stemming from weaning versus environment and even genetic for that matter. So my feeling is although I agree that a large amount of birds problems DO stem from environment it's a very complex question. And remember on message boards for SURE you're only getting half the story. Like someone will list an enormous bunch of problems or a very dramatic one (like biting) ....and you never find out the poor bird is kept up till 11 at night in all kinds of bright light and stimulation then wakes up at 6 am. Or it eats all crap or it likely has a calcium deficiency or the people don't want to pay for a vet.

I'm sure that as years pass by the one thing everyone WILL agree on (vets, rescuers and others) is how much we DON't know. Like diet. You cant get your Macaw to the clay they used to so are the substitutes working? You cant get your Budgies to fly around AU eating grasses and Eucalyptus bark so are the substitutes the "best".

My grandmother had a flighted Budgie for 22 years. She ate some seed but also ALOT of table food. She had her own place at the table and ate what we ate lol. Breakfast was oatmeal or eggs, toast and cantelope type deal. Genetics? probably a factor...Diet? Pretty sure...Flying? IMO one of the most important...Enrichment? for sure...

So given all the things that can be "negative" like: a bird sitting home all alone the entire day waiting for it's flock to come home, bad diet, not enough or any pure sunlight, bad water, no baths, clipped wings, no exercise or real enrichment, putting up with dogs and cats around and the stress of it, obnoxious kids, etc etc etc...oh did I mention clipped wings? LOL.....my opinion is lets get them weaned to the best of our knowledge (currently co-parenting...sort of like an open adoption lol)....so at least they have a good strong start in life ....which they will need when they are "rehomed" the very first time ...AKA bought and taken to a new bunch of strangers and home. Not to be dramatic but I feel this is exactly how the birds experience it.

AND not to be minimized, the act of fledging IS QUANTIFYABLE. All experts agree it's key to alot. But I believe there is some B.S. going on in the community with what constitutes fledging. Some people say "allow them to fly for a week or two". This isn't even close to what they need to actually LEARN to fly. THEN, people all complaing that they have to clip wings because the bird bangs the wall. And THAT"S because they were clipped young and need to be given the TIME it takes to learn. And some never do...at least properly. But I believe it's a small percentage.

Thank you for being open and considering what is BEST for your bird, not just what's "adequate". Everyone will be happier in the long run especially her!

As far as food goes search "abundance weaning" and do what you see there. Give her a LARGE plate (I use paper in a holder) of ALOT OF FOODS. Different shapes, sized, consistancies, some cooked some not etc. Grains, dark leafy greens, veggies, fruit. EVERY SINGLE DAY. Even if you have to throw them out. Then if she's not eating them after time....like weeks...toss them on top of her seed/pellets whatever. She will have to dig down through them to get to the seed. Some do the opposite and top with seed. Also try on the dining room table or on top of her cage and let her see you eat them. The intelligence of a Grey makes it quite easy for her to understand it all.

REmove after 2 hours and feed at the prime times. 30 minutes after waking at dawn and between 2-4 in the afternoon. And remove the other stuff at that time. Talk to her like a person and explain what it's time for ..."time to eat", "time to sleep" , "THIS is your food" "THIS is good" "no Seed now"....etc etc....she'll get it.

[Cindy215]

Originally Posted by Karol

I can not THANK YOU ALL ENOUGH for your advice.

I have decided to leave Bella where she is until she is fully weaned.

I would not be able to live with myself if something went wrong with her.

Again, Thanks for all of the replies here.

Good job Karol. BTW don't let them clip her she needs to learn to fledge and it takes awhile. That seperates the good breeders from the "bad" IMO. No offense. But doing what is BEST not what's convenient.

Fledging strongly will give her the best health AND mental attitude. And identity. Then if you think you are a pro-clipping person [ ]....you can bring her home and get to KNOW her and her ways before doing it. I'm sure you won't once you see how happy and confident and NOT NEEDY she will be, flighted. And weaned correctly.

Google abundance weaning for some examples of diet. Although my free flying (outdoor fliers) expert acquaintances cite TOO MUCH abundance and constant babying and too much food as a concern. The ideal balance is for her to get the right number of meals per day for her age and learn to "forage" ....meaning "look" for her food not sit like a lump and have it delivered 24/7. AND to feed the right number of meals per day for life enabling the crop to really work and the brain to work too. Like a small meal in the morning and the main meal from 2-4 pm.

[Karol]

Originally Posted by Cindy215

BTW don't let them clip her she needs to learn to fledge and it takes awhile.

Fledging strongly will give her the best health AND mental attitude. And identity. Then if you think you are a pro-clipping person [ ]....you can bring her home and get to KNOW her and her ways before doing it. I'm sure you won't once you see how happy and confident and NOT NEEDY she will be, flighted. And weaned correctly.

She was clipped when she first arrived from the Breeder. It was done before I even saw her for the first time.

I told them that I do NOT WANT HER CLIPPED AGAIN!!! The other day she was perching carefully on my shoulder and a man ran past us and spooked her.

She flew right off my shoulder and went about 30 feet so I know her flight wings are coming back in.

I will let her master flying once I bring her home, then I will get her clipped.

She is being weaned correctly. They (store) practice abundance weaning.

[bekfreak]

Knowing where you got Bella-2. She's in a great place to be. The wait stinks but visits are always grey't.

[SDavid]

Cindy215:

Thanks again for another informative post and for the advice. I've done some reading about proper weaning these past few weeks. I have to admit that I previously thought that weaning involved nothing more than hand-feeding a baby bird until it could eat on it's own. I realise now that it's a delicate process and that eating independently is not the only factor. Not to mention fledging - which I didn't even take into consideration.

It makes sense that a baby bird should spend as much time as possible with it's own kind so that it can learn to "be a bird" before it's sold and taken to a new home. I can't imagine that this is widely accomplished given the young age at which so many birds are sold. The same is true of other species as well. For instance, puppies may develop behavioral problems if they are taken from their mother at too young an age.

"my opinion is lets get them weaned to the best of our knowledge (currently co-parenting...sort of like an open adoption lol)....so at least they have a good strong start in life ...."

Certainly nobody would disagree with that.