Random - not so random - Ellie's biting episodes

[Astrid660]

Ellie just had a weird biting episode.. I had her on my knee, I was watching the end of a movie. Then I picked her up on my hand and took her the few steps back to her cage. She bit my finger/hand, latched on and wouldn't let go. It hurt a lot so it's hard to remember what the right thing to do is when you're completely in shock. I tried the earthquake method, I dropped my hand, she flapped, and I said whoa ellie, be careful. Then she did it all over again! It broke the skin but I'm not bleeding despite the pain.
I'm not wearing anything different (clothes), but maybe since I am feeling sad/anxious today, she picked up on that? Or maybe I was just not feeling calm enough when I picked her up... I just don't know what happened.

Background on my Greys - Ellie is 17 and Kato is ??? .. They came from a home where they appeared to be rarely handled and always caged. Ellie wants to be around people and she seems to like human attention, but Kato couldn't care less, he just likes Ellie's company. He hates it when I try to pet her, and really seems like he wants her to stay away from me. I know that sounds silly, but he's just over protective of her. There have been times where she wouldn't be aggressive (in my opinion) and then he comes along trying to attack me, so she picks up on that and tries to bite me too. Mostly that happens when I'm cleaning their cage. This time though, I'm not sure what triggered her biting. I know they are very sensitive to emotions, and when she bit I was pre occupied thinking about something else.
I think she likes a reaction.. Perhaps in the past someone yelled whenever she bit. I have heard greys are "nippy" but is this what nippy means - randomly latching on so hard as though they just want to take your finger off?

[Zoe's Mom]

Sounds to me like she didn't want to go back to her cage. Perhaps she was enjoying her time with you more then you thought?

My conures do it to me all the time. Now I have to distract them when it's time to go "home" and reward with a treat when they don't pull out the beaks!

[birdiemommy]

You're right in your thinking that something was "different" and made her feel the need to bite. It could have been anything from from what was on tv, to your emotions. Also she may not have wanted to go back to the cage and that was her way of telling you. Try to watch her behavior and think about what was happening before the bite next time. Hoepfully you'll have a light bulb moment

[Astrid660]

You're right, I actually never considered that she might not have wanted to go back to her cage! I will perhaps try a treat next time and hope that works

[Lori~D]

Sounds to me more like you were taking her away from her Mate. Bonded pairs can be unpredictable in their actions simply depending on whats going on between "them". The part where you said "I know it sounds silly" Doesnt sound silly to me at all. He doesnt want you touching his mate. Perfectly normal behavior. He can even exhibit many forms of what we might term "jealous" behavior even to the point of attacking HER to drive her away from YOU.

[Astrid660]

yes he has attacked her before, when I have gone to pet her . He rushes over and pokes her and she squawks. It's displaced aggression, right ? If you can't bite the one you want, bite the one you're with. something like that. I was taking her back to the cage from sitting on my knee when she bit, so I think she just didn't want to go back yet. She sometimes bites when I'm trying to get her to step up on my hand (She is more used to the hand held perch.)

I wonder what I should do, if anything, about their aggression. Kato is reallllly aggressive. I mean not 24/7 ... But most of the time when I get near. He's a generally anxious bird, I've noticed that. He gets really worked up when the little birds fly around, and I am starting to think that might add to his anxiety. I try to talk to him in a soft voice, he usually likes that but not if I'm standing too close. I wonder what to do about how bonded they are and wanting to handle Ellie even though Kato gets anxious even more for it.... Perhaps more time ? It has only been a year since I brought them home, sometimes it can take years to build trust, am I right?

[Lori~D]

It is not "displaced aggression. It is a birds way of protecting the mate - He bites her to DRIVE her away from you. Not the same as displaced aggression. Interfearing with a bonded ppair like that is only going to continually stress him. I doubt you will ever "fix" that. They are still emotionally wild animals and cannot work in "our system" He cannot understand. My only suggestions are either to keep them as a pair or separate them for good which will still hurt him. She is his mate and you are getting between that - yo cant change that. How she feels may be a bit different in that she is more submissive to both of you. Its a love triangle and he is not likin it.

[Astrid660]

Thanks Lori, you hit the nail on the head I think... he will probably always be aggressive towards me. I suppose not petting her while she's on the cage next to him would help, as that seems to make him more angry. She (Ellie) does like me and him, so you're right, it is a sort of love triangle. I will always love them both regardless- he's not going anywhere. It really makes me wonder what happened to him before, though. Times like this you really wish you knew what their past was like to help figure out why they act the way they do.

[Lori~D]

I have the bonded pair of macaws and it really streeses them both when I have to move them in and out as I have to slide the separator between them. Chase her out (then she will step up) and then and only then will he step up without nailing me to go find her!! But they are happy together. Someday I will get my wee baby scarlet?? Or catalina??