Need help introducing 2 LC 'zons to one another.

[Alyce Johnson]

I've had my first LC 'zon, Pico, for 6 months. He is DNA'd male & is at least 23/24 yrs old - and I'm at least his 3rd owner (not counting pet stores).

Pico will step up, will ride around on my shoulder & travel in the car, will even grudgingly wear a harness. But he just isn't bonded to me the way, say, my macaw is. (She thinks I'm her mate & loves me dearly.) Pico is reserved - he's his own bird, basically. He tolerates humans & seems to trust me, more or less. I think perhaps he's even a little bit fond of me. But he just isn't truly open to being bonded, from what I can tell, at least not to me.

Pico has also been afraid of all other types of birds, even those that are smaller than him, so far. My cherry headed conure, for example, tried to get next to him, backing towards him to show that he wasn't being aggressive but just wanted to be friendly. Pico just ran away. I have taken him to the bird store a couple of times, to see if he prefers the company of other 'zons. He hasn't had any reaction at all, doesn't even try to talk to them. (Then again, I haven't been able to find another LC 'zon until now.)

On the 4th I was given a 2nd LC 'zon, Icarus, gender unknown, at least 14 yrs old.

So far though, Pico seems terrified of Icarus too! I've been putting them on my bed once or twice a day to see if they can get more used to each other. Poor Icarus SO wants to be friends, but s/he just ends up kind of chasing Pico around on top of my bed, or up onto me, even. Finally when he's "cornered" s/he stops & doesn't attack or anything, puts her head down & sometimes also puts her wings out to the side in that quivering thing they do, even. But Pico is still aggressive towards her. He lunges at her with open beak if she gets too close etc. Clearly he's just clinging to me in fear. It's sad.

I don't know what that all means...
Is Icarus truly just trying to be friendly?
Or is Icarus a boy & actually trying to establish himself as the dominant male bird?
Is this normal, for Pico to be so afraid? Is he neurotic?
Or is he just socially challenged, perhaps?
Maybe he's just an unrepentant bachelor?

They ARE talking, which I consider to be very positive since Pico hasn't really tried to even talk to another 'zon before. I'm not sure he's actually ever seen another Lilac Crown - not in more than 20 years, probably, anyway.
So, they are communicating, which I think is a good sign.

I have them in cages next to each other. Icarus is in the much smaller cage she came in, and she's lower than Pico so that he has both height dominance and a much larger, much more expansive territory. (He has a huge cage, which was purposely intended for him plus a mate and he has a huge hanging gym over his cage as well.) Icarus also has another small cage to hang out in/on and a small hanging playgym across the room, so that she can sit over there and kind of just watch him. I made sure to make both of her spots lower than his perches, too. (Pico's the senior bird in the household and takes his elder statesman status very seriously. I don't think he wants to be knocked out of the head bird position by this newcomer.)

Do I just keep letting them interact even though they're not being very friendly?
Is that going to set a negative tone for the rest of their relationship?
Or do I keep them separated?
So far I've been doing a bit of both - mostly keeping them separate but also giving them short doses of closely supervised social interaction. Basically trying to desensitize Pico to the feared stimulus (in this case, another bird).
Do I run the risk of them deciding to just live parallel lives and not interact if I allow them to just get used to avoiding each other?

I've also tried putting Icarus up onto Pico's hanging gym, on the side he has always refused to play on or even sit on. He still wouldn't go over to that side of the playgym, but he was lunging across the center post, trying to drive her off, so that she had to sit out on the end of the branches. (I took her down after just a few minutes of that, since I felt it was more negative than productive.)

I have noticed that she seems to be learning to give him his space. I had her in her little cage near his, with the door left accidentally open. Earlier today and all of yesterday, if her door was open, she'd go to the top of her own cage and immediately climb onto the top of his. But I noticed that she didn't do that tonight.
She just stayed in her own little tiny cage.

Is that a bad thing? Is Icarus accepting that Pico wants to be left alone & giving up on being friends? So far s/he's the only one making an effort at a relationship. The thing is, since I don't know if Icarus is male or female, I can't really tell what kind of a relationship s/he's trying to establish. Perhaps she's really another male, and is trying to establish dominance? I'm assuming *they* can totally tell what gender each of them is. Maybe Pico is defensive because Icarus is another, younger, more aggressive male bird?

What if Icarus gives up entirely & just leaves Pico alone?
Will they just end up being two solitary little birds, living next to each other?
Would it be best to keep them more separate and let Pico decide he's OK with him/her? Help Please!

Today's update: I put them both on Pico's outside porch hanging stand. I thought this would be less of a territory issue since it's not right over his cage. Pico still tried to drive Icarus off of it, but finally they came to a truce, with Icarus backing down and Pico letting her stay on the opposite side from him. He then sat over on his side & preened himself & looked sideways at her. Later, when I took Icarus inside first, there was a great deal of calling back & forth between them. This is a good sign, right? I thought it was interesting that when Pico held his ground, Icarus backed down right away.

[akeaglevet]

Introducing two housemates is best done in neutral territory, like play gyms or stands. The cages should also be in sight of eachother. Just let nature take its course. Either they'll show interest in eachother or they won't and there's probably not much you can do about it other than stay out of the way unless they actually look like they are going to hurt eachother. Don't try to overinterpret what they are thinking of eachother either-- it's going to take a while for them to figure it out much less us lower, clueless, featherless beings. Some bickering and lunging can be expected occasionally but is usually not harmful. Don't leave them completely unattended or in an enclosed cage until they've proven themselves safe together.

[Joanie Doss]

When you first contacted me I thought you planned to breed them so gave you directions to set up for breeding. However, I see now that you are more interested in just having a friend for Pico.

Yes, birds can be very afraid of another bird. Even one of its own species. When I introduced my Nape Maggie to my Nape TJ and Blue Front Pepper, TJ
took one look at Maggie, ran to his cage, climbed inside and pulled the door shut behind him! They later became very good friends but when both became sexually mature, the friendship ended. They had so much fun as young birds and would wrestle on the floor like two puppies. They would pass toys to each other through the bars of their cages. It was sad to see this friendship end.

My Napes Maggie and Sidney have hated each other for over 15 years. I cannot let them out of their cages at the same time. Once when Maggie got out of his cage he flew over to Sidney's cage. Sidney promptly removed the lower portion of Maggie's upper beak. It was touch and go for awhile as to whether it would grow back, but it did.

What this boils down to is this: Your two birds may never want to be in the same cage together. They may never want to be friends. Take it slow as you have been doing by putting their cages near each other. If Pico is a male and even slightly hormonal he may not be friendly with this bird. If he is bonded with her and he is hormonal and she is hormonal, they will be OK. If only one is hormonal, there could be problems. Some males get skiddish and more fearful when hormonal. My Nape Maggie is this way. He is generally a pretty bold bird, but when he is hormonal he becomes skiddish.

I would not put them next to each other out of their cages quite yet, but then I always take my time with my birds. Amazons have a long life span and you have plenty of time to help them accept things. When they start going to the sides of their cages so they can be closer to each other, it is a good sign that you might be able to put them on a large play gym together at different places. Let them decide how close to get. Be ready with a towel or net to separate them in case they decide to have a show down.

I have three birds that can be out at the same time. Maggie can go out with the other three but he cannot go out if Sidney is not in his cage. That means I have to take them out in shifts and always be in the room with them when they are out of their cages.

Birds can and do hurt each other. In the wild, they can always fly away and escape another bird. In a home, they do not have that opportunity. Also in the wild, they can take their time in getting to know another bird. They grow up with birds of their species all around them and are taught very early by older birds how to behave in the flock. Domestic birds or wild-captures that were babies and raised by humans never learn this and can have problems adjusting to other birds.

Joanie Doss
The Amazing Amazons
http://www.parrothouse.com/jdoss.html