screaming OWA question

[alesia9]

Here is the background.....I rescued an Orange Wing (now named Coco) back in October 2004 who was found by a woman 18 years ago. Coco had been in a parakeet size cage (rusted at that), no toys, 1 perch, etc. It was
pitiful. I have an African Grey and I know much more about them. Coco is in a new, large cage with a clean food bowl and clean water. I know she is at least 18 years old and by her "c" shaped band is an import. I was told that if Amazon's have a red ring around their eyes, they are over 40. Have you ever heard of this? She was really, really in poor condition. We did clip
her wings even though her muscles were too weak to fly and trimmed her nails. They were very long. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Skip to now...Coco is now on pelleted food and eats a variation of SALLY BLANCHARD’S FAMOUS ‘GLOP’ RECIPE. It did take days of putting it in her cage just to watch her turn her beak up! She is now strong and
looks like a different bird. She loves to be misted too. I have a problem because Coco screams a lot. I know Amazon's scream but she screams many, many times a day. Not just in the morning and at dusk. I have a re-homed CAG that I have had for 2 years and if I'm in their room and try to ignore Coco when she is screaming and talk to Avery, she will scream even
louder and on top of me talking. It's a blood-curdling scream! She will scream if I'm in the room and if I'm not in the room so I can't figure out why she is doing it. Coco is also very, very bitey. If I even go near her cage, she will strike at me and when I cover her at night, she will try and bite the
sheet and my hands. She wasn't always like this. She still isn't fond of toys. I have seen her play with a foot toy and chew on a Popsicle stick (that isn't
scary to her). I always talk softly to her, will sit by her cage and read, and do everything slowly around her. I don't know what to do about her screaming. I
am in the process of finding a roommate and I'm having a hard time finding someone who is willing to live with her screaming. I certainly do not want anyone to live here who isn't patient with animals or doesn't like them but it even gets on my nerves and I am very, very patient with my animals. I have 3 rescue dogs and as I wrote earlier, a CAG and her. I also do not want
Avery to pick up her screaming. I am in rescue and am not someone who believes in "disposing" of an animal just because they become too much trouble or are inconvenient, so finding her a new home isn't an option. Any suggestions?


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[AmandaB]

Hi, I also have a rehomed OW, he's around 28 yrs and probably wild caught. Fred also screams, he doesn't like when I talk to the other birds, and he does it for other reasons. I found putting him in a seperate room from the other birds works. We have him and his cage mate in the livingroom with us, so they can be a part of our everyday goings on. you said she wasn't always like this? If something has changed within your household, or you have changed her cage location, or if there is a change in the amount of attention she's been getting, could all be reasons why she has changed in attitude. Being rehomed after so long could very well be the cause for her unhappiness as well. If she were an only bird, and all of a sudden has to share the attention, well that would make anyone jealous. Is she getting enough sleep, is she eating a healthy diet? Has she been to the vet and cleared as healthy?

As for trying to stop the screaming, have you tried positive reinforcement? If she is screaming, don't stay in the room to talk to the other bird, leave the room until she stops. Even take the Grey with you. When she is quiet, give her a favorite treat and tell her what a good girl she is. Do you cover her when she is screaming? If so, that could be the reason she is biting at the sheet. I don't agree with covering as punishment, or using a spray bottle. Those are both things we want them to see as a good thing, not make them feel like they did something bad.

I hope I've been of some help. Maybe some other Zon people will have some suggestions.

[alesia9]

Amanda

Thanks for your reply. I've only had her since Feb 05 and when I rescued her, she wasn't bitey at all or a screamer. I think that since she is now healthy and happy, she has the confidence and energy to bite and scream. I was told by my vet that she was near death when I got her. I don't think jealousy is an issue from where she came because she was "existing" in deplorable conditions. About eating healthy, she only ate seed when I got her and now she eats pellets and a very healthy "glop" recipe and fruits and veggies. She does eat some seed as a treat. She now grunts when I am preparing the food each morning for them because she seems to get impatient. It makes me happy that she looks forward to her food now. She will take food from my hands sometimes. Other times she will turn away, will drop it or will snatch it from my hand and turn her back to me. About the screaming, I will ignore the screaming completely and will praise her when she is grunting or making any other noise but screaming. I can't decide if she really doesn't want any attention from me or if she is still too scared to trust me. Up until a few weeks ago, she acted like I was trying to poison her when I gave her anything to eat! Yes, I do cover her since night one. It seems to calm her but she still snaps at the sheet. The snapping at the sheet started the same time she began lunging at me. Seems like she snaps at anything that comes too close to the cage??

Oh, about where their cages are.....they are in the livingroom/dining room but there are 2 doors that they can see out of and see me or the dogs. I'm in there a lot and I do a lot of stuff in the room and will take Avery with me to the back office or to the den if I'm not in the room. The dogs are also usually hovering around their cages in case a morsel of food drops or is slung outside the cage. They certainly are not isolated in any way. I like them to have their own room so they can get restful sleep at night.
I've only recently started to cover her if she is incessantly screaming since it does seem to stop the screaming for a short time. The cage is too big and cumbersome to roll in and out of the room. I do not use a spray bottle as punishment since she does like to be misted. That is one thing she will let me do without getting upset. I can even get the spray bottle close to her to get under her wings at times. Sometimes she will almost seem to direct me where to spray her. She is adorable when she is being misted. I can handle the biting but the incessant screaming is another issue. Should I try to gain her trust by using a dowel to try and teach step up or should I still sit by her cage while she lunges at me? I keep thinking that with time, she will begin to trust me and not think that today is the day I'm going to hurt her! I will take AVery with me when she starts screaming since I do not want him to pick up that bad behavior. He is a re-home who had some issues but is now a great guy. He still gets moody at times but what male AG doesn't?

Thanks again!

afj99

[Monica]

All I can suggest is this link to try to give you some more ideas as to why he might be screaming...
http://www.birdboard.com/forum/thread9659.html

It sounds as if he is in the same room as your grey, so maybe putting him in another room and see how he goes? You should get him checked out by an avian vet, atleast get a general check-up and ask to see if the vet might be able to guess his age.

[AmandaB]

She sounds very territorial of her cage. Does she have a playstand, or tree that she can come out of her cage and sit on?

[Rue]

...that's a good idea...a t-stand out of sight of the cage...and when she's quiet, do 'fun' things to entertain her...like silly dances...silly songs...they get quite involved...

...The Wheels on the Bus...and 'How Much is That Coco in the Window'...are guaranteed hits...

[alesia9]

Amanda, Rue & Monica,

Yes, she has had a checkup. The vet is almost sure she is over 40 and that she is an import. I would feel bad if I put her in a separate room. She spent over 18 years alone in a separate room or on the back porch in the elements. But, if others think that could possibly help, I asked for suggestions so I would be willing to try it. About getting her out on a playstand. I can't even get her out without towelling her. I will be in the room and leave the door open and she never comes out. I would get nailed if I tried to get her out. That's why I was wondering if I should just keep sitting by her cage and talking to her (I've been doing that for almost 5 months now) and see if she feels safer around me or if I should try a dowel or perch to get her out. Even if I reach my hand in the cage to clean up, she will lunge at me. I will try the songs, as silly as I will feel! I told someone today that if someone could hear me in my house talking to my dogs and parrots, they would think I was crazy! They are my children. My CAG does talk to me and will respond to certain questions. He will ask me "what are you doing in there?" when I'm in the kitchen and he can see me. He will also ask me "where are you going?" if I leave. Of course, I always respond to him. The other morning I hit my head on Coco's cage door and he immediately said "Ouch!" Amazing!

Monica, I have read threads from other people asking about biting but I will read the one you suggested. Thanks again for everyone's suggestions.

afj99

[Rue]

...I didn't mean for you to isolate her on the t-stand...you need to be with her at those times and to have quality time with her...but just to have her away from her cage (where she's being too territorial)...

...I can't say I've much (read any) luck getting my two semi-wild (ex. breeder) cockatiels stick-trained...but I think that would be the way to go with Coco...and even at 40, I don't think she's too old to learn...

...my 'wicked' 20 year old male 'tiel has mellowed out incredibly during the past year since I got a new, more interactive female to keep him company, he's gone from hissing and striking at me to making 'kissy beak' and grooming my hair (but only through the cage bars...I can't handle him)...I think watching her interact with me in a positive manner (although I can't hold her either) has had a BIG impact...

...I also think modelling with birds is an excellent idea...can you model something that looks incredibly fun to her with your CAG, or even with a human friend??? Ie., get the CAG to step on a stick and then do a happy dance? Or offer a special treat?...

I haven't had any problems with my new Amazon (she's ~ 10 years old), but the rest of the family is still scared to hold her and she's nippier with them as a result (catch-22)...heehee...her growling is deceptive...she's mostly bark and little bite...but it sounds VERY threatening...even the cats run when she does it...

...she can also be incredibly LOUD...thankfully it's mostly in the mornings (breakfast time) and a wee bit in the evening...I ignore her when she's being loud...but am sure to say 'Good Girl!' and tell her how wonderful she is everytime she takes a breather...so it's not getting worse...I also expect her to have these two loud periods...ALL our birds are vocal at these times (just none of the rest are of deafening loudness... ...)...

As far as I can tell, you're doing everything right...just don't get discouraged! Birds, moreso than any other animal I've handled, seem to need a long time to change or adjust behaviours...

[AmandaB]

If you can put her stand next to her cage, with maybe a perch in between the two so she can go between them easily. Put something enticing on the stand, say something like millet spray or another treat that she may like. Since she's a wild caught, a tree may be more inviting to her than a plastic or metal stand. (I don't know what you have, just making a suggestion) I know it may take some time, but in time she may do it. If she's used to being confined to her cage, she may just feel secure in there.

As for the lunging at you, I have no advice. My zon and his IRN buddy lunge at every chance they get, I can't put my hands in their cage. I can stand as close as 12 inches to them though, but no closer.

See if you can figure out what triggers her screaming, maybe the dogs barking or running past her cage, if she can see out a window anything passing by, or commotion could bother her. My zon screams if my children get wound up, don't know if he likes it and is just joining in or if it bothers him! :)

Give her time, and keep trying different things. With her age and being wild caught, there's always going to be some of that wildness in her.

If you want to or need to talk you can pm me, I'd be more than happy to talk to you and try to help you out. I'm sure there are others here with more zon experience than me who would be happy to also.

[The Outlaw]

I don't have an OW but I have a YNA and she has her moments, too. However, she doesn't scream so much. She just likes to hear herself. Try playing music, opera for example in her room. I have yet to find an amazon who didn't like opera. I'm not especially fond of it, but they seem to really identify with the singers.

You have nothing to lose and you may find that something as simple as this will start to bring the volume down to a tolerable level.

THE OUTLAW