Questions about my lilac crowned amazon

[Alyce Johnson]

We recently aquired a "pre-owned" lilac crowned amazon. Now he's getting very fat, and I dont know quite what to do about it - and we havent had him all that long, either. Also, he has some issues with being touched that we dont know how to work with.

He's at least 22 years old as his previous owners had him that long. He flew in an open window in San Fran into an apt very hungry and looking for food. The apt resident kept him, and gave him to her son in law and daughter. They kept him for 22 years, keeping him inside his cage, feeding him only bird seed, and then gave him up when they moved. They said he "wasnt very friendly" but did admit that they had never known how to socialize him properly.

He nips when afraid, but is getting better - he will almost always step up now, from inside his cage, w/out even trying to bite. And we can hand him from one of us to the other with no problems. He will sit on the shoulder or the knee & watch TV with us and so on. He likes to be with us, but is equally OK in his cage alone, as he plays with his chew toys, or sleeps (a lot).

He "squeaks" (for lack of a better description) when we're eatting to let us know he wants some. He hasnt talked for us yet, though, even though the former owners said he came to them already knowing a couple of phrases, and that he did talk for them regularly but just saying those couple of things. We havent heard much of anything out of him - he's very quiet, usually. And when he does vocalize, he makes pretty sounds, but doesnt get loud.

He also "chats" with Berta the blind macaw a bit, from time to time. Which is good, because she refuses to speak to the "lesser birds" (the green cheeks) except to tell them (very loudly!) to shut up. He seems to regard Berta as a proper flock member and is interested in her, although also afraid of her too (with good reason).

The only potential problem is that he seems very fixated on food, in an almost compulsive manner. We thought he would feel more secure if we just kept his dish full, and tried to give him the sense of food being abundant in his new home. (We've only had him about 3 weeks.) But he has been eatting steadily, and now looks like a rather large dumpling, when viewed from beneath. Or from any angle, for that matter.

Perhaps this is due to new and more interesting food choices? Or maybe he's just a natural piglet? Is this a problem? I know amazons are known for getting fat. But is this something he will maybe get over? I've given cats (who've had a history of starving) unlimited access to food, and although they initially gain weight, they eventually begin to slim down, once they decide the food dish isnt going to be empty and isnt going to one day simply disappear. Will this work with birds?

This is our 3rd "pre owned" bird, but our first amazon, so we are a little clueless about how to handle him and how to resocialize him most effectively. Any advice? Any book recommendations on amazons of this type? How do we teach him to play with humans? He wont let us touch him, but will sit on our hands. How do we work with him to be able to touch him, without making him feel his will is being violated?

He will let me stroke his back with the side of my face, and touch my nose to his beak. But he's very afraid of hands actually petting or scritching him, although he made a token gesture of letting my husband scritch him once, in the pet store, before we got him. Any ideas on touching him more? Also, according to his former owners, he reportedly would sometimes "scream" 'mom' which suggests to me that maybe originally, he was properly bonded to someone? He seems to want to be part of the family, he's just wary. Any advice would be appreciated!

[atalantae]

Hi Alyce,
I just aquired a rescue on Nov 6th. A MRHA.
He does the 'squeak' thing and is fixated on food also. He will let me pet him and will step up with no problem. Though he is in no way 'cuddly'. He will sit on my knee for about 10 minutes. Then he wants to go back to his cage again. I was told he was on pellets and people food and he was a seed-a-holic. Turns out. He is a BIG seed-a-holic, but has been eating his pellets and I do believe enjoying them!

I was told the book called... The Second Hand Parrot... is one terrific book. I cannot remember the authors name. But it can be aquired online at Amazon.

atalantae

[little_brodie]

Hi Alyce,

I am new to Zons too, mine's a Mealy, named Danny, a rehomed parrot as well. He's like yours in the aspect that he was afraid of hands. you can kiss his beak with ur nose or mouth, but he started to screech( or make this endless loud noise) when he saw our hands approaching at any angle once he's on the stand and became impossible to perch him up on the hand. But overall he was quite tame even then.
What i did was i use gloves or a tower, as his bites get harder in time(testing i believe) and do stepping exercises, and i did let him made noise but it stopped after 10mins or so. You can repeat that for several days with a few sessions daily, each session should no longer last more than 15mins. Danny no longer make noise whenever he was told to step up now, in fact he instantly step up. :)
i also feed him with my hand everyday. Every meal time( he has 4 meals a day), i'd be there to give him his favorite (sunflower seeds, apples, sweet potato, mango, papaya) or warm food before i give him the access to his food tray. That way i guess he learned that the human hand provide him his favorite foods/treats and will not harm him. After 1 week he doesn't see the Hand as a threat. And just 2 days ago, almost 3 weeks after i've got him, he willinging let us give him scritches on his head whenever we went near him. He shakes hand with us and play with my fingers toying in his beak. We are still working on building trust.... Though i'm glad that he has improved. The only problem with him is that he gets really really loud when he's outside, coffeeshop, park or simply parrot gatherings... Probably too excited...:)
At home he'll be happily playing with his toys, not so loud.
I think you can try to give your lilac crowned amazon warm food, it's sort of like a comfort for them.You can also talk to him, and slowly work with him to building trust and confidence. Just my 2 cents.
I'm also trying to get advice for my Danny as where i live there're very few ppl who has Mealys as pets, and i dunno any of them....:0)

P.S. You should cut down his food intake, more veges, less seeds( or give him sprouted seeds). Zons are prone to obesity and he'll not slow down like the cat. My grey,Brodie doesn't, until he's too fat now(610gm) that i've no choice but to cut down on seeds/nuts( just 4 times a wk 1 tablespoon of seeds, even then the seeds are sprouted, almonds now just once a week, just 1 piece)

[Alyce Johnson]

Thanks for the advice re hand feeding warm food - right now, he is still very wary even of that (the hands and the food, when offered by hand) but given his food issues, his tummy is probably the fastest way to his heart.

I tried this morning to give him some of my oatmeal. He nipped at the other fingers, and grabbed the blob of oatmeal so hard it was more aggressive than eatting (he dropped it immediately). But then he did have a little bit of oatmeal goo on his beak, and he tasted that. He endded up taking maybe one small actual bite (of the food, not me) finally. But I do think this is one area where we could probably make some progress.

I hadnt thought of the sprouted seeds. Any advice on what kind? From the store or from home? I have a seed sprouter and some seeds (bought on line, specifically for birds) but have been hesitant to feed it to them as they are apparently easily spoiled/contaminated. I personally detest sprouts (lucky they havent kicked me out of Berkeley/CA - I keep this bit of antisocial tendency to myself). But seriously, I hate them with a passion, so I have no idea what a good versus a bad/spoiled sprout would taste like. How do I tell if they're OK to feed?

Are the super market ones any safer? There was some complicated proceedure somewhere on line (that I've never found again) for how to make safe sprouts that involved using GSE (which I have). Any ideas on how to do it properly? I think he might eat them, if offered.

[little_brodie]

Sorry, but i dun have a seed sprouter. I bought the seeds(Greys/Zons seed mixture,sunflower,canary,etc) from the bird shop, just soak for 3 hrs,then rinse the seeds till clean and leave overnight. The seeds sprout by next morning and that's when i feed them or the day after. I only sprout a small amount each time. My birds are basically on fresh vegs,pellets and cooked food(wild rice, pumpkim, sweet potatoe,carrots, green/red beans, lentils, brocolli,etc)
I guess u could try with the hand feeding and gain his trust sooner that way...;)... Next time, give him his favorite food, i bet that's sunflower seeds...
Anyway, stop feeding him seeds for a while and when u wanna feed him seeds hand feed him, he'll be more than eager to eat from your hand....
Good luck and do post his pixs....

[Joanie Doss]

Amazons love to eat. It is one of the things that make them easy to train. My BFA Pepper will do anything for food and at one time knew over 50 tricks. He is retired now from performing.

However, you have to be careful with food around birds that put a high value on it. Both my BFAs do not want to be disturbed when eating. Kodiak will nip if you look like you might take some of his food when he is eating.

Some Amazons can over eat. I have seen Amazons so fat that they have
doubled and even tripled their desired weight. Some were so fat that their legs were in the splits and they rested their large tummies on the perch. From doing this for so long, the featers were worn. Out of my five, I have two that will eat until they burst, two that eat normally and one that never seems to gain weight no matter how much food I give him. He eats 2 and 3 times more than the other 4 and is still on the slim side.

For my two that over eat, I measure and weigh what they get. They are weighed regularly so if they gain, I cut back. If they lose weight, I add more.

By going slowly, offering food treats, and letting him get used to your hands and body by sitting near him and talking, reading or singing to him. Eventually he should come to the bars and may lower his head for you to scratch. Some birds get used to hands quicker if you work with them where they have the bars of the cage between the two of you.

Joanie Doss
The Amazing Amazons
http://www.parrothouse.com/bodylanguage.html

[akeaglevet]

Any bird that eats a high energy diet with limited exercise will be prone to obesity, and that describes most captive situations. If you see parrots in the wild, they are very active-- flying, hanging, chewing, working. Survival, even in the jungle, is hard work. It's difficult for most people to keep their birds physically active, though most of us can manage to help our birds some with flight training, use of foraging devices (e.g., having to chew wood, cardboard, etc. to get all of their food), or trick training. The bottom line, though, is to use a low-calorie food, such as formulated pellets in combination with fresh vegetables or greens. Birds can still get fat on pellets if they are 'remorseless eating machines' as your amazon appears to be. We run into pathologic eaters sometimes in veterinary practice, but they are rather rare. In any case, if lower calorie food and increased physical activity doesn't fix the problem then you need to limit the amount of food available. Most pellet manufacturers will put feeding recommendations on the bag which are generally very safe guidelines (e.g., higher than necessary in most cases), so they can be good starting points. Droppings and weight should always be monitored whenever changing food or feeding regimen, and it's a good idea to check with your avian veterinarian. Obesity or the appearance of obesity can be due to medical problems or, more often, can be the cause of medical problems, so get it checked out. Most notably, we see a great amount of hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver) in pathologically obese amazons. Other common consequences include stroke, atherosclerosis (arterial plaques), and kidney disease, all of which seem to generally come to a head when the birds are in their late 20s or early 30s if they've been on a seed-based or people-food-based diet for all that time. The birds seem fine for years and then start falling apart. It's a sad thing to see and there are fewer options for treatment in the end stages.

[birdsnthings]

Alyce,
Seems to going slow with the new one, eh? Patience! I am still trying to work with the Yellow Lored and boy can this one eat too but he is very active. He loves to hang from his toys and flap.
The one thing I found that he really likes are Sugar Snap Peas. I give him those uncooked and he just goes to town on them. Hey, I have found the Scarlet that doesn't like veggies eating them as well. I have to say I was pleased to see the Amazon eat those over the couple of Pine Nuts I gave him.
Everything I give to this Yellow Lored he eats! Maggie who owns him has him on Zupreem FB Pellets. He doesn't get any seed.
Alice

[Alyce Johnson]

I've just put Pico & all of my other birds on Zupreem. I was feeding a different pellet before. Pico *adores* penuts though! I have *of course* had him checked out by my avian vet! Dr Brian Speer said he was "disgustingly normal" when his lab work results came in (liver function included). Thankfully!

But he is in poor feather which Brian thought was due to poor nutrition for so many years. He said at a point, on the better diet he is now getting, that Pico will begin to molt & will start to look a lot better. Just last week, he *Finally* began to molt a bit. He's still on the very fat side but has lost a bit since I originally posted this. I am letting his wings grow out & have harness trained him since the original post too. I plan to try out letting him be free flighted inside the house. (I have a screen porch, screened windows etc to make it harder for him to escape.) Am hoping that will resolve the weight issue.