Sick Bourke

[Monica]

One of my bourkes has been having breathing problems. I had tried using ACV and GSE (not at the same time) in their water with no luck. Using Children's Ibuprofen did give some temporary relief, however only on a very short term basis. I called my vet and explained the situation (difficult breathing, breaths harder when stressed, strange stool, etc), and he told me to get some Ornacyn to try. I got two packages which was 16 days worth of meds. The Ornacyn did help, and the bourke actually put on some grams after the meds were done, however it did not cure the problem.

This past Saturday, July 22nd (took over a week to get the appointment though), I took her in to see the vet since I couldn't figure out a way to cure her myself. Vet explained that he did hear some wheezing within her lungs, and that it was probably caused by something such as a bacterial infection or an air irritant (i.e. bleach). Said that we could take X-Rays and try to figure out the exact problem, however that it would cost upwards in the $300 range, not including meds... I had explained to him that the Ornacyn had helped, just not cured the problem. At the end of the day, he sent me home with his nebulizer (would have been $150 a week to rent from a physician), 10mg of Doxycycline (antibiotics - 3rd or 4th generation drug from Ornacyn?), 250cc of Sodium Chloride/Saline, and a bottle of Baytril.

My instructions were to mix 4cc's saline with 1.5cc's of Baytril into the nebulizer and somehow hook it onto a plastic wrapped cage (or air tight carrier) and to leave on until the solution has fully evaporated (15 or so mins) for 7-10 days initially. Plus-which, to give the bourke .14cc's of the Doxycycline once a day, or .07cc's twice a day (which I'm going with twice a day), for 45 days. So far, since Saturday night of the meds/antiobtics, I have not noticed any improvements, however since the vet visit the bourke has lost 3 grams, as she was 36 at the vets. It seems as if this process is over-stressing the bourke too much and she's not eating as much as she should. I'm beginning to think that a more subtle way of giving the meds would be more effective... I am going to call my vet back on Wednesday (assuming I can get a hold of him) and discuss this with him...

For all wondering though, it was $48.60 ea for the bourkes to get a general check-up. The Doxycycline was $15, Saline was $7.50, and the Baytril was $62.50. The nebulizer I'm borrowing from vet, and he also sent me home with a few syringes and needles. Total cost was $188.47

All in all though, it is confusing as only 1 bird out of 12 has the problem. I can't think of anything else to add, however would appreciate any ideas or comments?

[Tiki]

Can you give the meds by crop needle? I found this to be the easiest way to medicate Tjinimin when he had the megabacteria. I hope he gets better soon!

[cbalvino]

In between,neb tx I would run a vaporizer,cool mist or warm,and keep her xtra warm of coure,my hospital cage has a plastic barrier from a a comforter,around 3 sides with a few sm holes at the top for air to circulate, the front is open but since it stays pretty misty in there have to make sure no drafts and they are warm,I have had good luck with respitory illness in my fids with this method,back in my early days of nursing we used asimilar contraption for people with pneumonia etc,hope you can understand my explanation? if not please write again or email me cbalvino@yahoo.com and I'll try to give better instructions good luck!

[Joel]

Monica....... I assume this person was an avian vet?. I personally suggest a second opinion from another Avian Vet without telling the second one anything relating to the first visit. I think maybe that would just cost another office visit charge unless you allow other charges or tests..... I'm surprised this vet suggested OTC Ornacyn & surprised he sold ya a full bottle of Baytril (but good to have anyway). I assume it is the injectible type in original bottle (20ml probably)?

Did this vet give your Bourke a Baytril injection at the office to get the initial loading dose into the system asap? Did he give it an initial injection of Doxy (hopefully, I assume so)? Did he give LRS injections (electrolytes) under the skin or an intravenous injection of same? If not, I would ask "why not".... I am not trying to second guess him (not meaning he is "guessing" either), just curious as to the route of treatment he gave you.

I just finished, a week ago or so, handfeeding 25 Tiel babies - all fed the same food, same way and kept in same conditions all along and eating out of same bowls and drinking water out of same bowls etc. - up until now but this one Lutino is the only one with a problem it seems. I weighed it yesterday for the 1st time and it was down to 53 grams. I mixed up some Nystatin (an "on contact" fungal killer - btw, I think it is a good idea for YOU to keep a "contact" & a systemic fungal killer (like Diflucan) also on hand if ya can get some, expensive tablets though) into Kaytee Formula and added a lil Injectible Baytril which I fed directly into the crop last night. However, the bird was looking sooo bad that I kinda thought it would maybe have passed by time I got up but I have saved others over the many yrs. before - without a Vet (I don't recommend the inexperienced do what I do btw) - so I was hopeful this one wasn't too far gone to not also be helped by the meds. Anyway, when I checked this morning it was brighter eyed, perkier and the full crop (even though slimy with what I believed to be a yeast infection) was empty. I weighed it and it was now up to 57 grams. Btw, I cleaned out the mouth yesterday also as there was stuck seed hulls under tongue & on roof of mouth and what again appeared to be possible yeast. I mixed up more formula this morning, adding again the Nystatin & Baytril & crop fed. Of course I am proficient in using a gavage needle and know how to hold the bird properly so I don't aspirate it by crop-feeding........So my point in all that mostly was to show you that one bird among many can come down with something and the many others not have anything, just like humans.

Again I want to say to all, I DO NOT recommend to the inexperienced who are reading this, to self medicate etc. , just passing on info. that may help some of you multiple bird keepers and newbie/inexperienced type breeders.

Monica, I'll be interested to hear how that nebulizer helps as I have never used one. Thanks also for all the detailed info. ya got from the vet & the mention of the doses etc....... Best of luck.

[Monica]

Tiki, the Doxycycline is given via syringe (not a crop needle, as I do not have the equipment, let alone experience to do so in this way). My avian vet assumed that it would probably be easiest to give the bourke the Baytril/Saline solution via the nebulizer as it puts the meds into the air that the bourke breaths.

cbalvino, a nebulizer is a vaporizer... unless you mean a humidifier. I have a humidifier however I have no filter, and I'm sure the filter would help the humidifier run more efficiantly... I know the filters are cheap ($10-$15) however I couldn't order one (these prices were found on the internet, and I don't have a credit card... difficult situation). I cannot hook the humidifier up to a cage in any way however, as it's a table unit.


Joel, yes this person was an avian vet. I'll see about getting one or two more vet opinions, however these will have to be with vets over the internet (as in one here, and another on a different forum). The vet visit was $188.47 and I only had $189, so I'm short on cash again (and I haven't been paid for some work I've done, let alone paid for something I sold some months back). The Ornacyn was actually in tablets, which were to be mixed into the bourkes water. As far as the Baytril, yes that is right... 22.7mg/ml Baytril Injectable. The vet did not give an injection of Baytril, since his plan was to have the bourke breath the Baytril in with the saline solution. No Doxycycline at the vets as this is given orally, and no LRS injections either. He gave the bourke just a general check-up and we discussed possible ways of treatment, and since I don't have $300 and up, this is the treatment he figured was easiest for me to do. He is wanting to have a check-up of the bourke in 1-2 weeks, although he did want for me to call him in the middle of the week (tomorrow) for the first check-up, so to speak. Since the vet visit took all I had, and I'm not sure when I'll be paid for other work I've done, I can't get anything else which I am sure would be helpful.


So in short, I'm doing what I can with what I have. All I can say so far about the bourke is that there are times that she appears to be breathing better, however she appears more fluffed up than what she used to be. She's still at 33 grams so no weight improvement yet.

[Freedomoflight]

Monica you need to see a Certified Vet. The DR. you are seeing is not certified in avain medicine. Community Animal hospital has 3 ACV's

[Winged_Victory]

Joel, you and I are thinking along the same lines!

This is what I see from reading the posts. The bird is being given antibiotics for respiratory infection but I do not see the any type of antifungal being given to the bird. You might want to ask you avian vet about this. Normally when you have an immune compromised bird an antifungal such as nystatin o fluconazole, or itraconazole is also used in conjunction with the antibiotic.

If it were me I would start asking questions. Ask the vet if the bird should be getting the antifungal and why or why not. What is the name of the bacteria infection? Did the vet see it on a wet mount slide or gram stain?

[Monica]

Even if he might not be an ACV he is quite knowledgeable and has helped me out before in the past, therefore I trust in him. If this treatment does not work then I'm sure I can look into seeing another avian vet (given I have the money then), however for now the nebulizer and Doxy seem to be working as the bourke has gained one gram back so far (34 grams now), is breathing better (as long as she is not over-stressed), and is not nearly as fluffed up as she was the first few days that treatment started.

The vet wanted to go the Doxycycline route since the Ornacyn had helped previously, and the Doxy is, to put simple, a stronger dose of what the Ornacyn is. At first, things didn't seem to be going all that well, however they are not starting to look up so it looks like the meds are finally starting to take effect.

[Winged_Victory]

Monica,

Nice to see things are looking up! As far as you vet, having a relationship of trust is very important with any vet.

Give your birdie a hug and tell him to keep improving..............

[Monica]

She's doing better! I'd say she's 70-90% better, depending on when she's gotten the doxy. Ran out of Baytril last Sunday so that was the end of treatment for that (at least for now). Saturday night she (bourke) gained a gram (34), and kept it till Monday. Tuesday she was down to 32 rams, she's now back up to 33 grams.

For the most part, she's looking a LOT better, seems to be sleeping more comfortably... She's still breathing slightly heavy (wings moving slightly and a very slight tail bob-looks as if she's panting without opening her mouth) and is a bit fluffed up, but it's quite an improvement from before (more fluffed up, and opening and closing mouth with every breath).

I've only talked to one other vet, and he said that the Doxy and Baytril ought to get rid of most respiratory problems, so I'm confident that she'll be fine!