What is the state of the breeding world today?

[Matt]

I am just coming back to parrots after taking several years off and wanted to see what has changed. In the past, late 80's and early 90's, I noticed that most breeders just threw any 2 birds together, even if they had plucking and severe behavioral or health problems. At the time I didn't think much about it...

Now, I have thought alot about it. I studied Champion quality show dogs the last year or two and the way they are bred. Conformation, health, temperament and performance are usually bred for in the show world. Most great dog breeders don't make any or very little profits. Its not about the love of money for a good breeders, its about the love and betterment of the breed (species in the parrot world, although I realize it doesn't equate exactly). With other motivations, many generations later you end up with genetically altered animals that are often in such a sad state as I am sure many of you have seen with the bulldog who can't whelp freely, can't breathe well and have many skin issues among other problems.

After considering all of this, I said to myself:" Why aren't parrots bred this way?" I suppose a few decades ago we were just happy to even get a egg from some species of parrot. I suppose its a natural progression and will come with time. I have no intention of breeding any time soon but I will definitely look for a breeder who is selective with his breeding program before I buy a baby. Possibly someone could answer a few of these questions for me so I will know what to expect as I talk to various breeders.

1.) Do many parrot breeders choose the birds to be bred based on health, talking ability and temperament?

2.) For anyone who does breed this way... Do you see much difference between your 2nd, 3rd and 4th generations?

3.) Is your selective breeding program living up to you hopes?

4.) What other aspects of breeding have changed in the last 15 years?

thanks, Matt

[huntress]

I think the biggest issue would be the designation of temperament I think. There are still many ex-wild breeders out there and then there is the fact that a breeders temperament changes so dramatically during the breeding season and sometimes of just the fact they are paired. So therefore that may be hard to dictate. And you could use ex pets but the problem with this is that often all the natural instincts don't take hold very well and pets-turned-breeder do not often know what to do (so -to-speak) or if they figure it out they dont really know how to feed and care for the young in the nest. I personally have a meanie little parrotlet female that needs a mate and I am looking for a more docile male to counteract some of it because she is a REAL good mommy and very healthy and lays large clutches. I also try not to breed full mutations to full mutations to keep them stronger.
Mutations seem to play a huge role nowadays as nobody can be satisfied with the norm so there are now a million different colors of teils and peachface lovebirds out there.
Then you have the Hybrids and that is another debatable topic - again, because no one seems to be satisfied with the beauty of Gods most wonderful creations. I myself am guilty of breeding mutations in the parrotlets because the green ones just aren't as popular and they are hard to "give" away nowadays.
Unfortunately not allot of breeders put as much emphasis on talking ability as they should and I firmly believe that if you have greys that dont talk at all then why breed them as 99% of the population looking for a grey WANT a bird that will hopefully talk one day. My friend has a pair of Congos with excellent talking ability and every baby that comes from them talks by the age of 5 months and they talk allot as well as mimic sounds. She wouldnt trade them for the world. She sells babies faster than she can have them.
This is all my opinions based on expiriences but I think temperment is the most interesting issue.

[Matt]

Thanks for the insight. I am by no means a very experienced breeder. I just have general knowledge and a little experience. I am just trying to understand more.

You brought up a good point about pets not knowing how to care for their young. That is a important thing to consider and very well may be a limiting factor. I am starting to remember issues now that you said that of a bird breeder I used to know that had issues with hand-fed pets rearing their young. I can probably count the clutches successfully raid from those bird on one hand.

While talking ability isn't the most important thing for me ,if I buy a timneh grey or SI Male Ekkie. If I seen a breeder that the parents had good stable temperaments and all of their young spoke by 5 months of age, I think that would be a no brainer on who I would buy from.

I don't condemn anyone for breeding hybrids if they have goals and a good breeding program. Not that these species could or should be bred but hypothetically speaking, here is a reason I might make a hybrid... Lets say in general all CAG's were aggressive but excellent talkers while Too's were the opposite. It could make perfect sense to create a hybrid and strive through several generations to breed for the desired qualities of each species ending up with a bird that has a great temperament and speaking ability. With better pets, less rehomes and more happy owners.

On the flip side, I think this is not why most people are creating hybrids. It seems that they do it for amusement or because they can which makes many people really hate the hybrids. The best hybrids will stand the test of time and many will fade away as the new fad presents itself. Hopefully we will always still have those pure species still around even if not popular. It is a shame that people don't want the green parrolets and if they had one, they might just fall in love with it.

Anyway, thanks for your perspective. Its nice to be learning about this subject again. Its been way too long.

[greencinacheeks]

i have a friend (a breeder) that breeds hybrid parrotlets and i asked her why she would breed them...she said...she didn't like them but no one really wanted greens which is sad. but she said she never gives up on her greens though.

which is good to know that she is keeping the "wild" strain going....i agree that in the future most hybrids will fade out. hopefully like you said we will still have the "wild' strains

~N

[isoscelestri]

Originally Posted by greencinacheeks

i have a friend (a breeder) that breeds hybrid parrotlets and i asked her why she would breed them...she said...she didn't like them but no one really wanted greens which is sad. but she said she never gives up on her greens though.
~N

Bah, I love my green parrotlet. I don't see how people couldn't be enchanted with his colors, lime green chest and face, olive green wings, and a vibrant forest green tail... maybe no one looked close enough to appreciate the details of the wild type birds she had. He has a wonderful temperament and seems to be very intelligent (he learns words he likes very quickly when I didn't expect him to speak at all).
If I were to look for another bird, I would defiantly want one that came from a breeder that was more concerned with temperament, health, and intelligence than with purity of mutations. I'm glad your friend hasn't given up on her greens.

[Tishrei]

This is probably totally off topic, but everybody here knows what Ducky looks like. I wouldn't trade him for any thing in the world.

[birdsnreps]

out of my ~60 breeder birds, only one plucks a few feathers out of his chest when he is spending lots of time in the nest. i have one other female meyers that plucks her mates head, lol, i have no idea why, but she does. poor guy has a bald head. i think alot of raising a good baby parrot is the time you spend with it when its a baby. the parents temperament can show in their babies, but its not the biggest determining factor in the babies' personalities. for example, my meyers breeder pairs are very skittish, they dont like any type of human interaction at all. but, their babies are the best pet birds ive ever dealt with, and they stay that way even as they mature sexually. they are one of the most friendly, outgoing birds we raise.

our red bellied breeders are VERY human friendly. they love our attention, and i can even handle most of them. their babies come out the same way.

my grey pair of cockatiels do not like any human attention, but their babies are very docile and sweet, more-so than our WF babies. our whiteface breeder pair were both pets as youngsters, they chose each other, and i set them up to breed, and they are still semi-tame. the female is more hanldeable than the male, although the males talks, kisses, whistles and sings up a storm when i talk to him. they are usually pretty good parents as well, but their babies take just a little more effort on our part to keep them very docile and sweet.

ive got 6 alexandrines, all but two love human attention. two males are very tame, giving kisses, demanding my atttention, no biting, making their cute noises at me, etc....they are wonderful, and their babies are too.

anywho, with my birds, my breeder pairs seem to be the opposite of what their babies' personalities are. these are just a few examples of some of my pairs, we have many more pairs, but with most pairs, their babies have much different personalities than their parents. im sure other breeders will tell you differently than i have, but this is how it is at my house with my breeders and babies. we love our babies, and we do our best to socialize them from a very young age, we take pride in our babies and the effort and time we have put into them. i think my babies are great, but then again, you could say im biased

[huntress]

Arent we all I think when Purchasing a new bird one should look at the mutations if color and the $$ permit it but really should get down to the temperment most of all. If they cannot find good temperment in any of the color they choose and still want the species then look to the natural colors

[4HAND]

Do you really feel birdsnreps that the good temperaments are nature,not nurture?I think it's your focus on socialization at a tender age that makes them sweet and happy.This is where many breeders are falling short in my opinion.
Tena

[birdsnreps]

wel l, with us, really, most of our babies are different from the parents when it comes to temperament. but, you also have to consider that most of my breeding stock, i bought them when they were already proven breeders, they have been breeders for who knows how long and most of them have just bonded with their mates and become scared of humans. most breeders do not bother tyring to socialize their breeder birds, so they just become accustomed to never getting any human attention.

i do have diff breeder birds that are very human friendly. two of my male alexandrines are near pet-quality. my 3rd pair of alex's really like to be talked to, given treats, and i can get them to step up on a perch to come out of their cage, and they dont fly away or anything. once they are out of the cage, you can have them step up onto your finger or arm, its really neat i think. none of the handling affects their breeding, they breed when they are ready. one of my other male alexs was very skittish when i first got him, but he really did take to me, and he just loves me now, he screams for me so i can go over and pay attention to him. i can even stick my hands in there, and he licks my hands and fingers but doesnt bite :) his fave thing is to give kisses though!!

on the other hand, for example, i have two pairs of moustached keets. i got them as just weaned babies, two were completely tame, and two were wild cause they werent socialized very well, and after they weaned, the breeder i got them from didnt handle them at all. ive had them for aobut 6 months, they are still too young to breed, but the two tame ones are still very tame, aand one of the wild ones has become tame as well :) they compete with each other for attention, lol. im still working on the last wild one, hopefully she will come to like the attention as well. they will most likely stay tame when they mature and start breeding. it really makes a difference when you have "pet" birds from a young age that later become breeders, they stay at least semi-tame. i have tiels also that i had as babies that are still semi tame. i think they are much more comfy wtih me checking on their nestbox and their eggs/babies, vs. a pair that never got any attention after they became breeders. i prefer to have my breeders semi-tame, it makes them more comfy in our house, and with us :)

here is a vid i took of one of my breeder red bellies. this is the tamest breeder bird we have, i always wonder if she was someone's pet, and why on earth they would ever get rid of her to become a breeder. in this one, shes just letting me pet her and stuff, but i couldnt catch her regurgitating or doig her cute little dances that she always does for me, lol. i have to work with her so she can learn to step up, then she can come and hang out with me in the bedroom



its just an example that a breeder bird can be tame and happy, they dont all have to be wild and scared of people :) i really dont know why breeders just start ignoring their breeder birds once they are paired up, you might not really be able to handle them anymore, but you can still have a hands-off relationship with them that is still fullfilling for both the birds and the human.

that being said, socialization is still the most important thing when raising babies. if they get a good start, and they go to a loving home, there really is no reason for them to have these terrible behavioral issues. usually when they have plucking or screaming issues, its the owners fault, and possibly the breeder's fault if they didnt do a good job while they were young. each diff type of bird is gonna have its own personality still, but thats why its SO imporant that people do their research and choose the bird that best fits in their home and schedule. too many people go around buying birds based on their looks, supposed talking ability, etc...its just not the right way to choose a bird. another thing is noise level...i had one guy that bought a senegal, not from me thank god, he said it was real sweet and everything, but he got rid of it cause of the noises he made i told him he should have listened to their noises before he bought the bird....then a little while later, he asked me to sell him a meyers, which makes the exact same noises as a senegal, so i told him no, lol anyway, this person was just buying different birds without doing any research andthen getting rid of them when they didnt meet his expectations he will never get one of my babies :(