are my greys getting ready to mate?

[daylili222]

My greys , Teddy and Milly finally decided they liked each other after about 6 months. Now they are inseperable. I have read about the 'signs' of a mating pair but want to confirm. First, they are shredding everything around them. Milly's eating has lessened and Teddy has been feeding her mostly. They seem to have a new language.. all cooing and kissy to each other. They are now sharing the same cage.. OH and when I pet Milly, Teddy gets highly upset. He was hissing at me.

alittle background. Both are rescues. Teddy was never really handled much. He is about 16 years old. We have had little contact with him, although his cage has been right next to the couch so he was always near by ..just safely behind his cage bars.. . Milly is about 6-7 and was born in horrible conditions. Never caged, until we got her. etc. I am not so much worried about losing thier pet qualitys. They both seem to be very happy, and content. I can see it in thier eyes that they are very happy to be together. I just want to be prepared for babies if they are coming along.

any thoughts? Monica.. i have heard you are the person to talk to about this!!!

Happy Holidays everyone!

Ginger

[Monica]

That it does sound like breeding behavoir, however I am by no means a breeder, let alone an owner of the larger birds (anything bigger than a conure). If you are worried about them loosing pet qualities, then you need to continue handling them each day. If you are not interesting in letting them breed, then you may have to look into separating them, but keeping the cages close. If you are not interested in breeding, do not allow them anything that they could try and build a nest out of.

If however you are interested in breeding, you need to become experienced in handfeeding, have all the extra supplies to handraise if it's a must, have breeders and/or avian vets who can help out in case you have any problems with the parents or chicks, as well as the supplies (syringes, handfeeding formula, towls, heating pads/lamps, thermometers, etc) to handfeed yourself.

Personally, I don't recommend breeding two birds who came from bad situations, let alone in a country that is already overpopulated with birds as it is (USA being one of the main examples), unless it's either to try and preserve a species, or to try and equal out a supply for the demand of birds (i.e. for countries where wild caught birds are still legal to import).

[Cindy215]

Well it's not breeding season in the Northern Hemisphere if you live here. So they are being exposed to too much light since we have 10 hour days right now. I follow a strict natural daylight schedule INCLUDING dawn and dusk and no artificial lighting after 3. Sleeping in a quiet dark room without humans disturbing them. And you can lower the protein and vitamin e.

When spring comes they may mate, as nature intended, and I think that's a good thing since we take everything away from these captive birds INCLUDING the choice to even chose their own mate. But you dont (and shouldnt IMO) have to let the eggs hatch. You can replace with fakes from fakebirdeggs.com or freeze their one at a time for 24 hours, mark with an X and return at room temp. They wont care and will lose interest and abandon them. This way the MOST you're probably going to have is one or two clutches in breeding season.

You want to be conditioning them NOW in advance even though you're not going to let the eggs hatch the calcium is drained out of the hen's bones with laying. This means an excellent diet, alot of fresh dark leafy greens, veggies, grains and fruits. AND if she's not on pellets careful care on vitamin a and calcium. I use Calciboost since I dont feed pellets. If you do, (and they ACTUALLY eat 85% not just throw them around)...then you dont supplement with artificial vit or minerals and should speak with your vet.

You may lose some of the qualities of human attachment but in fairness, I think they deserve a family too of their own species since only another bird is possible to understand and communicate with them. They give up alot for our entertainment. But plenty of breeders I know say their birds stay just as friendly in fact beg for attention. Not, of course when they are brooding.

I posted a couple of articles here one under "Sexy Behavior" someone posted on ways to discourage breeding behaviors. EXPECIALLY artificially induced episodes like now, that's a hormonal imbalance not normal. Albeit other birds are being a little "friendly" right now with the "global warming" going on outside. But still none of my rescue friends are experiencing any breeding, we ALL follow a strict natural daylight schedule.

[Hootie'sMom]

I'm sorry...... how is killing this pairs eggs (future babies) allowing them to have a family? I really have to disagree with this.If you are just going to freeze the eggs, I don't think the pair should be allowed to breed at all.

[Cindy215]

Kill future babies? Wow that only individuals that intend on having children are to have sex? That works really well in humans, we all know right? LOL

You may not be aware that a hen will lay even if the male is not in her cage. Even from just seeing him across a room. OR even without any male in the house at all. Egglaying is a dangerous and serious condition not something to be encouraged. Since they are in an unnatural condition, captivity, with humans taking care of them that dont understand their needs. Not giving proper food and lighting and medical care, and vitamins and minerals, or allowing proper exercise like flight, etc etc etc. Like making them stay awake till 10 - 11 pm. And even when you do everything that you think is right we STILL dont know enough about these creatures.

Which is how they force egg hens to lay 365, by keeping all the lights on then they die at age 3.

Family meaning each other. A companion. Someone who speaks THEIR language not some big giant they have to struggle to understand 24/7.

How are you going to stop the breeding? By keeping them seperated for 50 years? And what is the point of doing that other than we are bigger? And is it ok to just have the hen laying anyway but the only difference is they arent fertile eggs because she's NEVER allowed to be with the male?

Sorry, I think that's the meanest thing I ever heard. Just because someone wants to crank out 6,12,18 babies per year?

There are three biological imperatives, food, shelter and procreation. This allows them to behave in a normal physiological way and have a chance at a somewhat normal life.

There is no reason to contribute to the parrot overpopulation, in the wintertime of all things, by inexperienced people thrust into the position of raising hatchlings for what purpose? Because of an accident. Even in the spring what exactly is the reason? There are over 1300 listings for birds on petfinder last I counted and many multiple bird listings.

Sorry I dont see why you disagree. This is what everyone does and why fake eggs are available on fakebirdeggs.com.

Noone is saying this pair is definitely going to breed anyway. But the OP deserves to know her options and what is the MOST recommended method by all experienced bird caretakers and many vets.

And that she will run her hen into the ground with month after month egg laying that is not necessary and only a hormonal imbalance.

Which is what we're trying to stop as I said. The BREEDING BEHAVIOR.

[Copper]

I ask forgiveness here from everyone.... I'm venting

Thank you Cindy!
Our avian pets have become the 3rd most surrendered pet in the U.S. That's only the ones we know about! How many have been released to fend for themselves? There is a population of red-headed conures in CA. The Birds of NY are monks, and are also in FL, IL, CA, and most major cities. In some states it is illeagel to own, in some states a permit is required. Does anyone really think that all these populations came about in the 70's with birds escaping from a shipment at the airport?
A finch living in captivity can live 12 years in good conditions. In the wild it's 3 to 5 years. A female can begin egg laying at something like 3 months of age in captivity, and if the eggs are removed, she will lay more to replace them. An average clutch is 4 eggs, but they have been known to lay as many as 8. That's a minimum of 32 eggs before she is even a year old. If she ends up mating with a sibling, the chances of fertile eggs from that mating drop... that's nature's way of keeping things in check. IF the eggs are viable, the chances of that hatchling surviving are lowered because of genetic annomilies. If it does survive, and breeds with a nest mate, chances of a viable egg lower even more.
Now....
If you have a huge flight for them, and barring sterile eggs, and all of them survive, that one pair will have in that year's time produced 128 offspring. That doesn't count additional pairings from the offspring! If that pair does live 12 years, that's 1536 offspring... Just from one pair!

Experienced breeders had to get their start someplace, I understand that. A professional breeder also makes sure that each chick has testing done for avian diseases. Each chick is cared for, if it can't be cared for by it's parents. There are incubaters, containers, supplies.... Big money. If you think what is layed out in those supplies is going to be recouped by the sale of the birds, you're wrong.

What happens to those offspring that can't be sold? Will they each get the attention that they deserve, or will they become part of the number whose ancestors 'escaped' from that airport in the 70's?

[Cindy215]

Your welcome, LOL, be my guest to vent on this subject.

There are WAY too many birds kept in hormonal behavior, regurgitating all over people, starving for companionship and enrichment, eating crappy food, havin appendages cut off, egglaying for no reason, and made up medical care and "training" like covering birds during the day to shut them up or to "give them a time out" for nipping.

I believe every captive bird deserves a mate, preferably chosen by the bird, and let go through the breeding motions....then freeze or swap the eggs so no hatching ensues.

(de-ranting lol)

[Copper]

Bless you!
I thought that I would come back to this and find dozens of people telling me to go lay an egg myself and try to hatch it.

I've evaluated several 'rescues' and 'sanctuaries' in the last year, and there have been a couple of 'caring breeders' whose breeding stock have come from 'rescues' and bird shows where 'rescues' are being sold as having come from 'breeders'. The ruses can be pretty elaborate. The 'breeder' and the 'rescue' make a killing, the one that surrendered the animal usually doesn't know, and what they don't know, isn't going to hurt them. It's usually the conures and smaller birds. No vet checks, no quarentine, and no one the wiser... unless the coloring of the bird is unique, and the one that surrendered it is visiting the bird fair.
Unless someone can identify the animal with dna samples, or the animal has been chipped and they have a reader that they carry with to each of these shows, it comes down to he said, she said.
There are some wonderful sanctuaries out there, who deserve recognition for what they do. They are examples of caring that we should all try to emulate on a smaller scale with the animals we keep in the sanctuaries of our homes.
The only way we have a hope of lightening the load that these places have, is taking the responsibility for our own animals. It's a good thing for a bonded pair to be in the house. They don't have to be a male/female pair, they don't even have to be the same species. I fully believe that my grays need each other, but to breed them? no. That isn't showing my responsibility, nor does it show that I am a good flock leader/owner.
If it's a breed that is rare in captivity, and the wild gene-pool is nearing extinction from over capture and depletion of natural habitat, then I would have a responsibility to 'share' my animal's genes, so that my great-grandchildren don't come to know a species only as a picture in a book. Until that happens though, my sweeties will live a life free from reproducing new generations needing homes or trust funds in my will.

ok.... getting ladder to get off soap box!