Breeding questions:

[Sorechia]

Just some general questions that I have always wondered. I always see people saying don't breed birds for the money, but there are breeders out there and they do sell their birds. How can the not at least break even? I understand bird costs but seems like with one or two pairs you would at least break even.

Also how do people have outside aviaries year round in places where it snows? This one has always made me wonder.

Just curious.....

[Lori~D]

Breeding "just" for the money includes people who dont really care about the birds and there physical needs. Hobby breeders are usually people who Love birds, love to learn about and then specialize in certain types of species. Hobby breeders rarley "break even" they do it because they love it. People in colder climates like my friend and I do not keep the birds outdoor all year long or some have heated areas to the Aviaries. Parrots can spend time in the snow and will if given the chance and are used to it. Quaker Parrots can and do survive quite well in NYC and Chicago in the wild now. I have seen Aviaries built where the birds have doors to come and go in cold weather.

[birdiemommy]

It seems like you would break even, especially with the big birds that sell for a lot of money. But think about all the costs. Vet bills for the chicks if there are any problems, and vet costs year round for the parents. Formula costs if handfeeding, and equipment such as brooders, syringes, tubes. Regular upkeep for the cages, food for parents year round. If you're handrearing a lot of babies, it can be hard to work outside the house, so your income could be affected.
It makes sense when you think about having breeding pairs for one year. Factor in the money you spent year round to keep breeding pairs and the actual costs associated with the handrearing of the young. I can see the money made off the babies just offsetting the costs to get the baby to that point. Ok, I'm tired now just from thinking of it.

[Alan]

I agree with both answers. I have a friend that started out breeding zons. She always has and always will, well she then started rescueing. She just rescued several breeding pairs. Out of those this year she has only had 4 babies hatch. One of the babies in 1 feeding will eat 52 cc's of food. Now this is a large bird, but the cost of food is tremendous when you think about it that 1 baby can eat 52 cc's and she has 2 of that particular baby and then 2 smaller ones. She does it for the love of birds and she does produce great babies. This is why I am going to get one of her babies when it is ready. But like has been said, theres food, vet care, hand feeding supplies(she doesn't reuse plastic syringes, and the cost of keeping the parents up as well. So by the time she sells the babies she hasn't even broken even. One clutch was 3 eggs only 2 hatched another clutch was 3 eggs 1 hatched, and then she had some clutches of 3-4 eggs that didn't even hatch at all.

[Jan]

I must say that breeding birds is a lot of hard work and with everything that goes hand in hand - it is very hard to make it in aviculture no matter how large you are. If someone is a larger type breeder/farm then you are having to pay people to work for you.

I do it all myself and I have only about 50 birds total and for me that is a lot to care for just one person doing it all. As mentioned above, seed and pellets are very pricey now so it is hard to feed plus what other soft foods too that have to be bought on top of that. No, me ... I am not sure why I am doing it and/or continue to do so ... oh yes, it is for the love of the parrots. So why am I working for free? So, I really am giving away my birds when it comes down to it!!

For the time spent, you would think you would be better off to raise/breed the larger parrots but with that comes more food, bigger caging... the handfeeding part takes some what longer to wean out babies. You may get more for the babies but again, you have higher costs over all plus don't forget the price is higher for the breeder birds as well.

I don't care what anyone says everyone does it for the money because if a person wasn't doing it for the money then we would be raising our birds and just give them away for free... breaking even is not it either because if you was to be paid by the hour on all what has to be done... the birds would be very high priced. I work around my birds 365 days a year, you mean for a measely $3,000 in a good year that my babies bring in but all, my other expenses on them superceed that and yet none of that involves my time if I was to be paid for any of my time ... something really is wrong with this picture! I really should have just went out and employed myself with a company or something... but then again... I am my own boss with a hubby who has been the sole bread winner!

Say it now, "Yes, us breeders work for free!

[Sorechia]

So if you don't factor in the time....would you say you break even on pay out and pay in?

Also do you keep your birds outside..how do yall do that.

The reason I am asking is that I saw a ton of breeders at a show this weekend. I live in NC so I know what the winters are like here. I can't imagine those people all have the birds in their houses. I didn't want to just ask them how they do it...seemed rude (lol) so I wanted to see what other people did here since there is a large group of people on this board that do breed too.

[Jan]

Considering that I do have my birds as a business, I have some advantages being that I can write off certain things. I probably barely break even. I have my bird toy sales too that is a part of it all... my birds do not bring in as much as my toy sales.

As for myself, I live just about 40 miles north of San Bernardino which is in Southern California. I sit at about 4,600 feet in elevation. I house all my breeder birds outside in aviaries, they are not heated. The birds are protected from the wind and stay dry. We get snow here. We get to sometimes around 15 degrees in the winter time. Being that I breed only the Pionus Parrot Specie and Blue Front Amazns they do good in the cold here. I once tried African Greys but they do not handle that temp in the winter and they were getting frost bit toes so in they came, then later, I traded them for other birds... seeing that I am not setting up to breed in my house and to heat the aviary in the winter is out of the question.

[Abby]

Yes there may be some small profit for those of us who have the average price birds and don't over breed them. Naturally those who are breeding the birds going at $15K each will make more but then they need buyers who are willing to part with that type of cash. If one continually breed their birds then more babies equals more money, and sub standard crap chicks with risk of killing off the hen due to egg binding or prolapse.

There are those of us who work on a small profit margin and filter it straight back into our birds whether it be directly with toys, upgrading facilities etc, or indirectly with reference books, courses/seminars etc.

Very few people can make a living out of breeding birds. Those that do generally have the cash to inject from the start or are older and have been around for years gradually building upon what they have both bird wise and facility wise.

I could go back to being an Registered nurse full time and be on $70K a year, but I'm not passionate about it. Breeding and raising quality companion parrots is my passion as well as being with my children as they grow up.

I live in Australia in a non snowing area. Wouldn't even know what the stuff looks like so can't answer that one.

[Sorechia]

Thanks for answering my questions, few people want to talk about breeding since a large portion of the bird community is so against it. I am glad to see that people do it for the love of the birds...not just for a quick buck!

[Abby]

I think what has happened (and it seems to be more in the US but Australia needs to watch herself) is that people have gone in thinking they can make a quick $. Birds have been sold without education and until recently there has been minimal follow up or support. The consequence is there is a number of birds in rescues.

We do have a few rescues in Australia but I'm talking a handful. The main one is PRC (Parrot Rescue Centre). I'm friends with the woman who runs this centre (kinda ironic being a breeder) but for us it's a case of working together to ensure that more birds don't go that way. The main species of bird that Zarita has is GSC2s. They aren't a suburban bird generally (despite the fact we have one who is beautifully behaved ) however people don't listen and they become a bit of a "status symbol". All good until they begin attention demanding screaming, plucking and aggressive then get handed in 'cos it's too hard to deal with.

It's why as a breeder I'm going into the behavioural area as well. I start the LLP course next month. I want to make sure that none of my babies get offloaded due to behaviour issues and provide follow up.

To be perfectly honest Monica I very nearly didn't answer this thread. I kinda get sick of being labelled an evil breeder and having to justify myself. The thing is, as I said, I love what I do and I know that I'm good at it. That may sound a little arrogant, but so be it.