In the wild? Constant feeding.

[magdalena]

Not sure if this is the correct place for this question, please move as needed. I've been reading a lot more about handfeeding while trying to decide if I want to get a baby to have the most control over its socialization if I can't find an adoptable older bird. I have handfed before and I know the controversy so I'd rather not go into that so much as this specific thing I am wondering about.

I read that in the wild a mother will continually feed her babies to keep their crops full. I assume that means as often as she goes back to them not the 4 times a day at a certain age and 3 times a day later then 2 times etc. that we humans feed growing chicks. I can understand why handfeeders may not have this sort of time to continually feed babies they are hand rearing but I wanted to ask if one did have the time if it wouldn't be better for the baby?

Has anyone ever handfed this way? Was it more or less successful than timed handfeeding? Maybe I am missing a health concern, is it better to feed more and wait for a baby's crop to empty between feedings? I would assume not but only know of how I was taught which was to feed at certain times a certain number of times a day depending on age (and checking crop fullness, etc etc). It seems to me that continual feeding (or more feedings of smaller amounts) and really anything that closest resembles how a baby would be reared in the wild by its parents would be best.

Just curious.

[Lori~D]

A mother in the wild will feed constantly but there also is a time between where she is out getting the food. Yes the more feedings the better for any baby but not necessary for bonding. I never wait for a babies crop to empty between feedings. Its should empty at least once in a 24 hour period - like at night. Ive never noticed a difference in babies fed more or less feedings a day. I have however noticed a difference in babies handled less or pulled way after the eyes are open on some species.

[magdalena]

Thanks Lori (and thanks for making sense of my overly edited post lol) that's what I meant. I wasn't thinking of doing it (if I did it) for bonding so much as a better adjusted baby and wondered if it was done that way ever. Since I am home all day I could viably feed more often. I often wonder how much better adjusted our companion birds would be if we raised them as closely as possible to how they'd be raised in the wild.

This question came up because I was talking with a friend about how many baby birds we have seen in brightly lit glass cases in pet stores with people walking around them and if that could be good for them versus being in a dark brooder simulating their natural dark nest in the wild. We both realized that a large number of pluckers we've seen come from that sort of pet store set up. I just wondered what other little changes we make with our babies that push them further from their natural instincts and if we unknowingly set them up to fail.

[sodakat]

I can't address parrots' behavior in the wild, but can give some anectdotal first hand experience after watching my eclectus pair rear their (now 16 week old) chicks.

We did not have a camera in the nest box and limited lifting the lid to peek in to once or twice a day, but I could hear the hen in the box and within a couple weeks could hear the chicks calling out for food, so it was pretty easy to know when she was feeding them. When I did look, the crops were always cram-packed full! I even worried about this a bit. It appeared that she fed them them whenever they woke up. The first week or two this was every hour or maybe two hours. As they got older, they slept longer, so she fed them less often... maybe every three hours. It seemed they slept for a longer period over night, when the house was very dark. We covered the cage really well every night around 7 or 8 pm to make sure they would have a long dark period (it was always quite dark in the nest box of course). The male had lots of food in his dishes in the cage so he could eat any time and feed the hen anytime though. Once in a while we would hear him feeding her late at night and then her feeding the chicks. Around a month old, when eclectus chicks begin getting their colored feathers and can be sexed, the hen was feeding them every 3 or 4 hours during the day, with a longer sleep period overnight. But, we would often hear at least one of the chicks calling for food at about 4:00 a.m., so the overnight period was not more than 6 hours even at this age I'd say.

When they were about 6 or 7 weeks old the male started directly feeding the chicks and the hen started eating more herself, rather than only being fed by him.

He will still feed the (now full sized) chicks once a day, if they "awck" for food, but the hen basically quit feeding them once they fledged, and left the weaning process to the male. Not sure if this is typical, although I know it is with, say, blackbirds.

We use abundance feeding, so the chicks are able to eat a variety of foods whenever they wish. They still ask for a bit from their dad at this age though.

Hope this helps some.

Kathy

[Lori~D]

Ahh, now I do keep the babies in the darkness until they begin to flutter and fledge. This is more natural as they would only get the light filtering down from the nest hole until they can successfully flutter up to the hole them selves.

[Monica]

Kathy, that's an interesting observation! I kind of figured that handraised birds may be fed more frequently than parent raised because formula is probably easier to digest than whatever the parents feed the chicks... although parents tend to feed the chicks whenever they are hungry and humans may try to stretch the crop so that they can feed the chicks more food and have less feedings (I've heard of some parents overfeeding but I can't say why).

Although I am not a breeder, it has always been from my understanding that the fathers usually wean the chicks once they leave the nest, and as the chicks mature, the father will occasionally refuse to feed his chicks. Birds don't "abundance wean" their chicks, (as I understand it) but a bird can say a lot more to their offspring than a human can to handraised birds. I'm not against abundance weaning, actually I'm all for it, but only in the sense that we can't raise a baby parrot the same way it's parents can, so abundance weaning is important in handraised birds.


As for handfeeding formula less more often, or more less often, the only thing I can think of is that if fed too frequently a chick could become too dependent because he may not have enough time to learn how to eventually feed on his own.... but it may be just an irrational thought as well. I've never handraised and weaned parrots before so it's not something I can give any appropriate answer to. One thing I *HAVE* learned though is that parents can and do feed at night, and there's a rumor that they don't so there is no reason to feed a night feeding. When a chicks eyes haven't opened yet, how are they to tell when it's night or day?


Suppose I'm rambling... I'll leave the rest to the experts!

[magdalena]

I actually thought parents DID abundance wean in the more general sense that they continue to feed their offspring for up to two years after they are born in the wild. Even though the juveniles feed themselves they still get comfort feedings.

[Lori~D]

you can see light if your eyes are closed.

[Monica]

I haven't studied parrots in the wild, and I have heard that they feed up to two years... I suppose I would like more information on this. My point was though that eventually the parents usually start to refuse feeding the offspring. They may feed them longer than we humans do, at least as far as macaws go, but when it comes to the smaller species like conures, cockatiels, and budgies, these species may take longer to wean when handraised vs parent raised.

Lori, you are correct... but I still must wonder! And besides, nestboxes are usually rather dark... so in a dark environment with closed eyes, how much light can these chicks sense?

[sodakat]

Again, this is anectdotal observation of one clutch of eclectus only: there are times that the male refuses to feed the babies now. They fly to him and beg, even though they've just eaten (as Magdalena said, I think this is more comfort than hunger) and sometimes he will ignore them. I think the big difference I am seeing now, at almost 4 months, is that he doesn't OFFER them food like he used to. Instead he only feeds if they are persistant, and then not very much.

Regarding abundance feeding: maybe I'm using the term wrong since the parents are still with the chicks and could be feeding them if they didn't get enough to eat on their own. Regardless, they have a large assortment of both fresh and dry foods available 24/7. They are not being weaned in the same sense as hand fed babies I suppose.