DEBATE: Yawning Birds

[Freedomoflight]

Wow, a breeder who seemingly doesnt believe birds have feelings.... is anyone else getting that vibe or is it just me? I mean come on, for EVERYONE on this board who has stated that their bird or birds yawn, not the moving food in crop yawn, or the adjusting pressure in ear yawn, but an actual YAWN- dont you think thats viable? I guess not!
And I have to agree, Birdtalk is hardly good (if good at all) as an authoritive source.

[BirdsUnlimited]

Where'd you come up w/ a breeder (I assume you mean me) doesn't think a bird doesn't have feelings. Nowhere should that be taken. I also don't think Bird Talk is a reliable source for quality info. It just seemed timely to mention the article as it was the topic here.

[Freedomoflight]

You have a hard time believing that parrots yawn because they are tired, no matter how many people try and tell you otherwise. You say you dont like that people give their birds "pet names" to "humanize" them. Well, we are all animals, we are just the highest class of animals. If we are animals and we yawn, why cant a lower class of animals (parrots) yawn also? And whats wrong with names? It just seems to me that you dont think a parrot has feelings.... or consciousness for that matter...

[Monica]

Actually, I don't think we are a higher class of animals... but then again that is just IMO. BirdsUnlimited said that he stood corrected, from the information that Yehudasf provided, so I think that pretty much sums it up and the yawning debate would be over, unless anyone else had any other information to contradict what has already been posted. He doesn't believe that parrots can yawn, but with the information provided, he wont try to disapprove it, either.

As far as whether or not he believes in giving animals cutesy names, I guess that depends on your point of view... I've had or still do have, birds named White Waters, Storm Cloud, Noel, Cosmo, Smurf, Saffron, Neon... I haven't named any of my current birds because most came with their own names. In truth through, I don't really care to name a dog "Fluffy" or "Blackie", even if our cats names are Squirt and Sprite. Their names correspond to their behaviors. Our dog Bullets name corresponded to a small white dot that was on his forehead... his last family named him however. I usually prefer to name an animal by their color or by their behavior (somewhat like old traditional Native Americans did, in one respect). But overall, I'm not really interested in all the cutesy pet names, either. That doesn't mean anything in respect, just that is what I prefer. I'm still a bird enthusiast though, and love them dearly.

Anthropomorphism is giving inanimate objects, animals, or natural phenomena human motivation, characteristics, or behavior. Humans are indeed animals, so by saying that a certain person has a certain human aspect is anthropomorphism on itself... it just doesn't make sense! And by saying that we give a quality of human aspect to an animal is like saying that they don't really have feelings. Many people know for a fact that animals DO have feelings, as if they did not, then we would not either. By saying that we are the superior race would be saying that we rule the world, that we are always at the top of the food chain, and that we have the meaning to life. It's simply not true. Some may say the meaning of life is to live, reproduce, and die. I can't say that's accurate either, so to say we are a superior race would be to say that we are the all knowing beings. There are plenty of people who come here daily to learn. Billions of people are still learning. These are of course IMO only.

So with that in mind, may we please stop bashing some personal opinions??? If not, I'm sure that we can get the thread closed. Let's just all respect everyone else's opinions, whether or not we agree with them.

[BirdsUnlimited]

It would hardly be a debate if everyone agreed on the same thing. However because I took the "other side" from everyone else some how that seems to have made me wrong, don't observe birds as well as others, think animals have no feelings... basically I tried to explain my views and answer peoples questions, I was an easy target. Fire away, I've got thick skin. Thanks for the topic.

[Tiki]

Monica, since you started this thread, I can close it if you want. But personally, I don't see any "bashing" going on though I do see several disagreements. I draw the line at personal comments or insults, unless I see that, I see no reason to close the thread.

[ParrotletLover]

I have seen Lily yawn before, although it wasn't at bedtime. I haven't seen her do it since, though.

[Freedomoflight]

Hey, I didnt say we were a superior race. "By saying that we are the superior race would be saying that we rule the world, that we are always at the top of the food chain, and that we have the meaning to life" We are the top of the food chain tho- who eats humans? We do in a respect rule the world, because we run every aspect of our lives, not to mention animals lives, and in some cases, other peoples lives. But we DO NOT have the meaning of life. In fact, I do not believe we ever will.
I said we were the highest race of animals. And in a sense we are. Animals, talking animals like parrots, dogs, cats, apes... do not drive cars, make technology, etc..... thats the ONLY thing I was basing it on. Heck, I know dolphins, parrots and apes, and other animals have as high of an IQ as humans, heck probably higher in some respects.
As far as the cutesey names goes... Whats cutesy? Fluffy? But if you have a cat, that is indeed very thick furred, wouldnt it be an appropriate name in that respect? I took cutesy names to be nicknames, etc. My birds name is Higgins. He came to me with that name. His nickname is Higgy. Is that too cutsey? I mean..... *sigh*

[Tiki]

Hey, anytime someone calls me a "birdbrain", I thank them for the compliment!

[Monica]

Tiki, I was a bit afraid some of it was getting out of hand. As far as the actual cutesy name, for me, I probably don't care for them because of where I grew up, and not actually being able to fit in nor having many true friends back then to care for many things in a 'girlish fancy'. That is probably a similar yet same reason why I prefer not to hang around most girls, as it irritates me when they act as if something is cute, or some person is 'hot'. I just don't see it in humans, so don't apply similar things to animals, as they are not humans.

FreedomOFlight, I can understand how we are of a higher stance than other creatures as far as technology goes, however much of our technology and inventions have been destroying the earth and it's inhabitants. The main thing is, if we go too far, we will ultimately be our own demise. How any person would want to be the cause of their own death is beyond me, though it started when we began destroying the land, polluting the air, etc. I know it's something that I cannot stop, and it's also something that I wont try to stop because it's been this way for many generations. Though theoretically speaking, could the cause of us polluting the air be causing the warming of the Earth's atmosphere? Which in turn would result in the melting of the ice-caps, and the cause of even harsher hurricanes? I know the warming of the Earth happened after the Ice-Age, though is it just possible that we are just making this transition of warmer air taking place that much quicker? Scientists have already concluded at least the effects of pollution to the melting of ice caps, and most agree it's because of humans. In that respect, I cannot agree that we are a higher race than others... (reminds me of smoking, drinking, or doing drugs... those can shorten a person's lifespan, if not directly killing them... those of us who choose to do it, but don't care to stop are ultimately leading to their own death... but many out there are trying to quit, many of which actually succeed)

As far as to who eats humans? Easy question... How many times have you been bitten by a mosquito? Maybe even a tick, or lice? Do they not survive off of our own blood? There are creatures in the sea who would tear our flesh apart. Sharks being one of them, however most don't care for human meat, even after taking one bite to taste... Same with wolves, as rarely a human dies by them, but many die from a loss of blood or an organ(s) after being bit. Maggots feed off of a humans corps. There are not many animals who would actually attack us, and then eat us, but there are many out there that would, especially if we were injured or dying. Some humans have even been swallowed by snakes... Though of reports of snakes actually eating humans are usually few and far between.

I'm not always trying to look on the other side of things, unless something proves correct in all it's way and any wrong idea about it can be disproved.