What family do ekkies belong

[Vankarhi]

I was just wondering what family do our eclectus belong? I know that 'toos are psitizine (spelt wrong) and alexandrines are psitacula (spelt wrong again). I will have to check out the spelling of both and practise them.

Something I was wondering and do not fear I am NOT going to do this, it is just that a few of my friends have come over and seen my new baby and have assumed I am going to breed - not even realising they are not even the same breed. But is it even possible for my ekkie and alex to breed?? I only ask this because of what my friends have said so it got my brain thinking and also because I remember there being a thread that cockatoos, galahs and cockatiels etc cannot breed (can't remember if it was here or somewhere else) and since then I have seen pictures of a galah cross 'tiel, galah cross 'too and a corella cross galah. Yes i know that these birds are at least in the same "family" or genus, but I was just wondering???

My birds are in separate cages and always will be except for travelling and only then as long as they travel well together.

Skye is very curious about my new baby alex but I do not let them together, just showing her the baby (her new brother - hopefully I will find out if he is a he in the next week). I am trying to at least get them used to each so maybe they can be friends. Unlike my galah and ekkie, when Bo was alive she hated Skye and no way would tolerate Skye.

So it is just a hypothetical question nothing that is going to even be pursued.

[Lori L]

I know what you mean, when it comes to birds it seems that birds should be able to mate with birds the way a dog would with a dog and a cat with a cat. There is no dog-cat cross. So I think that a species of bird is at the same level as the species called canine or feline. Maybe I's using the wrong word, it wouldn't be species because that relates to the type of bird the way breed relates to the type of dog. Hopefully someone will explain as I find thi very interesting.

[felisdomesticus]

just using my biology knowledge--members of the same species can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. There are some situations where different species can interbreed but their offspring are sterile--like horse + donkey = mule or tiger + lion = tiglon.

from another site:
Class: Aves;

Order: Psittaciformes;

Family: Psittacidae;

Subfamily: Psittacineae;

Tribe: Psittaculini;

Genus: Eclectus;

Species: roratus;

Subspecies: roratus, vosmaeri, polychloros, solomonensis, westermani, cornelia, riedeli, biaki, aruensis, and macgillivrayi.

obviously they are in Kingdom Animalia.


Also found this:

ORDER PSITTACIFORMES

Family Cacatuidae: cockatoos
Family Psittacidae
Subfamily Loriinae: 12 genera with 53 species of lorikeets and lories, centered in New Guinea, spreading to Australia, Indonesia, and the islands of the south Pacific. (Sometimes classed as a full family and thus termed Loriidae.)
Subfamily Psittacinae : subdivided into nine tribes:
Tribe Psittrichadini : Pesquet's Parrot
Tribe Nestorini: 3 species in 1 genus, the Kea and Kaka of New Zealand and the extinct Norfolk Island Kaka
Tribe Strigopini: Kakapo
Tribe Micropsittini: 6 speces of pygmy parrot, all in a single genus
Tribe Cyclopsitticini : fig parrots, 6 species in 3 genera, all from New Guinea or nearby
Tribe Platycercini: 37 species in 14 genera, including the rosellas
Tribe Psittaculini : Paleotropic psittaculine parrots, 66 species in 12 genera, distributed from India to Australasia
Tribe Psittacini : Afrotropical parrots, 12 species in 3 genera
Tribe Arini : Neotropical parrots, 148 species in 30 genera
http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Parrot

[Vankarhi]

Originally Posted by felisdomesticus

just using my biology knowledge--members of the same species can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. There are some situations where different species can interbreed but their offspring are sterile--like horse + donkey = mule or tiger + lion = tiglon.

from another site:
Class: Aves;

Order: Psittaciformes;

Family: Psittacidae;

Subfamily: Psittacineae;

Tribe: Psittaculini;

Genus: Eclectus;

Species: roratus;

Subspecies: roratus, vosmaeri, polychloros, solomonensis, westermani, cornelia, riedeli, biaki, aruensis, and macgillivrayi.

obviously they are in Kingdom Animalia.


Also found this:

ORDER PSITTACIFORMES

Family Cacatuidae: cockatoos
Family Psittacidae
Subfamily Loriinae: 12 genera with 53 species of lorikeets and lories, centered in New Guinea, spreading to Australia, Indonesia, and the islands of the south Pacific. (Sometimes classed as a full family and thus termed Loriidae.)
Subfamily Psittacinae : subdivided into nine tribes:
Tribe Psittrichadini : Pesquet's Parrot
Tribe Nestorini: 3 species in 1 genus, the Kea and Kaka of New Zealand and the extinct Norfolk Island Kaka
Tribe Strigopini: Kakapo
Tribe Micropsittini: 6 speces of pygmy parrot, all in a single genus
Tribe Cyclopsitticini : fig parrots, 6 species in 3 genera, all from New Guinea or nearby
Tribe Platycercini: 37 species in 14 genera, including the rosellas
Tribe Psittaculini : Paleotropic psittaculine parrots, 66 species in 12 genera, distributed from India to Australasia
Tribe Psittacini : Afrotropical parrots, 12 species in 3 genera
Tribe Arini : Neotropical parrots, 148 species in 30 genera
http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Parrot

wow, I am impressed. Now I will go and read it slowly so I can take it in.

[felisdomesticus]

I am only guessing that the family and tribe (could this be genus?) are listed next to those to whom they are most closely related.

yehudasf will have better information on this topic.

[Lori L]

Maybe it's too late or I'm too stupid to understand all that, is there anyone that can put it a little simpler, all those words are making my head spin.

[The Outlaw]

Well, Eclectus are their own species. There are NO bird breeds. Sometimes unrelated species can actually produce viable offspring, but its very rare. I think Monica had a photo of a Goffins and and Galah cross or something along those lines. There are, as stated above, many sub-species of eclectus parrots.

[felisdomesticus]

Thanks Outlaw, that's what I thought, though I am so new to birds.

Subspecies can interbreed--as various "breeds" of cats and dogs can. Yes they can produce viable offspring.

But different SPECIES usually cannot produce live offspring. If they do, that progeny is 99.9% of the time infertile.

I'm no bird expert but if one can produce Ruby and Catalina Macaws (who I think can breed), they must be the same species if not subspecies. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[The Outlaw]

This gets very complicated, but I believe that each of the macaws is a species. The birds your describe are hybrids. That is a cross between different species, not a subspecies within a species. In other words, usually the reason sub-species occur has to do with the environment that a species lives in. If its substantially different, then a species living there often changes to meet those demands. That's why we start seeing slight differences, or sub-species produced. Over time, families of birds change in size and coloration enough to be assigned a subspecies name.

So, if you breed a redsided to another redsided Eclectus, even though it may be larger or smaller, it will still always produce a redsided Eclectus parrot. If, however, you breed a redsided to a grand eclectus, you have created a hybrid. Its not a subspecies. That baby even if bred back to either redsided or grands will never be able to produce the subspecies of either. It will only be able to produce hybrids.

So, to simplify this, the Eclectus would be the species and the subspecies would be Solomon's Island, Grand, Vos Marie, etc. Any crossing of any of the subspecies will ALWAYS be a hybrid. Does that make sense?

[felisdomesticus]

So do Catalinas or Rubys produce offspring? My understanding is that they do--but I could be way off on that. If they do produce viable offspring, then the traditional biological definition would say that they are members of the same species.

I was hesitant to even mention the macaw species b/c I remember that yehudasf lists them as separate species--but I know they can produce hybrids.

My question is: do those hybrids produce F2 progeny?