Toos and mini macaws?

[amaseya]

I"ve searched and read a lot of posts here on Too dust affecting large Macaws, but what about the minis? I have a Citron too and recently got a hahns. They are in the same room together because my house is not very large. Does anyone know if the too dust will affect my little mini the same it would affect a larger macaw? Thanks so much! I enjoy searching and reading the other posts but was looking for something that might apply to the minis. Thanks again!

[grymlocke]

I think I've read some of the same posts, my thoughts are: 1) Always ask a reputable avian vet requarding any questions about avian helath, 2) if you take the plunge, quarantine the new comer for a month before exposiing your other bird(s) to any foreign deseases and keep close attention for ANY signs of respitory distress in the macaw, remember bird naturally hide their problems as a survival instinct until they're so bad they can't....don't wait that long.

[swanwillow]

My thinking is that a macaw is a macaw.. mini's are just called mini's because they are smaller...

[raddaughter]

When I was researching before I got Echo about dust with my macaw, I read [somewhere] that it affects the mini's as well. Like said, a macaw is a macaw reguardless of size. The best thing you can do is to get a good air purifier (or two). Mist the cage papers and change daily. Open windows (screened) whenever the time presents itself, and vacuum with a hepa equipped vacuum cleaner daily.

[Nazir's]

I asked this same question on the board not too long ago. I often was told that the dust from a Too or Grey could possibly be dangerous/health hazardous to the macaw, just as you stated.

I continued to do my research and started noticing many people that were owned by the two species. I asked them their personal experiences in regards to my concerns. Of course I was advised that they have not experienced any issues and went on to mention all, if any precautions they have taken. Not stopping there, I continued to research and browse the net. I then started noticing several breeders that had pictures of their Macaws next to their Cockatoos and/or Greys. I contacted every one of those breeders. With one I was very forthcoming, telling them that I once considered the two species but I've now decided against it BUT I was still curious to know their experiences with the dust/health issues. This breeder and I must have stayed on the phone for about two hours just talking. What I was advised by her was that it's possible but not very likely that a macaw would suffer from a Cockatoo or Grey’s dust in a clean environment—with clean bird. She and her husband had been breeding Cockatoos and Macaws for 23 years and have only ran into this concern of mines once in all of those years. She mentioned that it was that particular Macaw and just as some humans are more sensitive to pollen the same goes for the Macaws.

She separated that particular Macaw from the Too's and he was almost immediately just fine. Later he (the macaw) was sold. The people that purchased him return to purchase a Too from her and she had to refuse them a Too. She wouldn't place a Too in the same household with that particular Macaw. However, in all of her years of breeding this was the only Macaw that she experienced this with.

I didn't ask her what she would advise for a person considering the two species as she just kept saying that it really depends on the bird.
Then, another thing that I once noticed was a breeder at a bird show had their Greys and Macaws housed together. It was probably 6 Greys and 4 Macaws all housed together in a huge cage, getting along just fine. All of those parrots looked lively, alert, healthy, and happy. I bumped into this breeder in the restroom. While making small talking and following her back to her booth I noticed that she was the breeder of the Macaws and Greys that were housed together. I asked her had she ever experienced any adverse health effects with the Macaws as result of the Grey's dust and she told me no. No, actually what she said was this.... "People will tell you anything but I've been raised with and raising Macaws and Greys all of my life and have not ever ran into any such issues. I have some of the healthiest babies ever! People have told my mother that she shouldn't feed her bird’s raw rice and cheese but she did. Though she is now gone, those very same birds are healthy and still here. And I am here today as a living witness but I don't feed them cheese."

One thing that I didn’t do is ask my local avian vet. However, I can just about imagine what he’s going to say being that he too has a Macaw and a Cockatoo.

Now, I am not saying to go for it and I am not saying not to. That choice is yours! I am just simply advising you of what I've been told, have witnessed and observed. Personally, I decided not to take the risk but there are several breeders and parrot owners (even on this forum) that are owned by the two and have all resided together without a problem thus far.

[Lisa B]

RESPIRATORY DISEASES IN MACAWS
Pulmonary Hypersensitivity Syndrome (the same thing humans can get)
by Linda Pesek DVM, Diplomate ABVP (Avian)



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Providing a good environment as well as a good diet is essential in keeping your bird healthy. In addition to proper temperature, good ventilation is essential.
Although good ventilation is necessary for any type of bird, it is especially critical for macaws. Blue and Gold macaws, as well as several other species of macaws, seem especially sensitive to airborne irritants. They may develop a progressive respiratory disease known as "pulmonary hypersensitivity syndrome" if housed in a poorly ventilated room, especially if kept with birds that produce a great deal of powder - cockatoos, cockatiels and African grey parrots.

This powder is produced by specialized "powder down feathers" and is a white waxy substance composed of keratin. Powder down forms a water proof barrier for contour feathers. It is spread through the feathers when the bird grooms. The down is composed of very fine particulate matter which becomes airborne very easily and spreads via air currents and air ducts throughout the area.

The powder down can also cause irritation to people with respiratory problems and allergies. (People with allergies may be able to tolerate these birds, but they should be aware of this before acquiring one of them).

In the early stages of pulmonary hypersensitivity syndrome, the macaw may appear normal, but wheeze with excitement. As the condition progresses, dyspnea (difficulty in breathing), a cough and a bluish tinge to the facial skin (cyanosis) develop. Hypoxia or under oxygenation of tissues occurs, which often leads to an increase in the number of circulating red blodd cells (rbc). Polycythemia (increased rbc numbers) will increase the viscosity of the blood so that it does not flow normally. Clinical symptoms and xrays may support the diagnosis, but a lung biopsy is necessary for confirmation.

In order to prevent this, macaws should be housed in well ventilated rooms - without cockatoos, cockatiels or African greys. An air cleaner with a hepa filter is recommended.

Unfortunately, this pulmonary disease is often advanced when owners first notice a problem.

Affected birds should be moved to an environment with adequate ventilation. Certain drugs may provide temporary relief, but there is no cure for "pulmonary hypersensitiviy syndrome".

Winged Wisdom Note: Dr. Linda Pesek graduated from the University of Pennsylvania School of Veterinary Medicine and is a Diplomate of the ABVP in Avian Practice (a Board Certified Avian Veterinarian). She has a small animal and avian practice in New York. Linda also writes columns for The Long Island Parrot Society and The Big Apple Bird Club and is a frequent lecturer at their meetings. She is the owner of an extensive collection of exotic birds.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[whitewing]

I want a Citron so bad where do you people keep finding them? They are impossible to find!

On-topic I wouldn't risk it, whether it was a mini-macaw or large macaw. If at all possible move one bird to another room.

The B&G is the most popular macaw (big or small) so logically most cases of damage/death would be from owners of that species. That doesn't mean that ONLY B&Gs (or other large macaws) are effected.

What about an air purifier next to each of the cages?

I do know that if there are problems, they probably won't show up for at least five years but by the time the bird shows signs it is probably too late. Some people here will tell you they have no problems, but ask them HOW LONG they have kept a dusty bird in the same room as a macaw....

At the very least get multiple air purifiers and clean/change the filters often. Also vacuum every day at least once per day, and spray the 'too papers with water before changing them. Make sure your 'too gets bathed regularly.