Success! Auction of Dead Macaw Pulled!

[yehudasf]

Yesterday evening I sent a message to the woman who had posted (on ebay) the desecrated remains of an Ara Chloroptera (Greenwing Macaw) for auction. In the message I reminded her that it is a felony to traffic in the remains of CITES 1 listed animals, & without clear provenance of the creatures remains she could face a large fine as well as jail time. Here is the response I received from her this morning:

About This Member
zitzf( 110)
Positive Feedback: 99.1%
Member Since: May-23-00
Location: NY, United States
Registered On: www.ebay.com
Thankyou for the heads up.As you know these birds live a long time and rarely die. This bird was given to us by a local zoo after it died of natural causes.I 'm familiar with the more common larger parrots.But apparently, not familiar enough.I raise allot of birds myself,but not parrots.I didn't realize this bird was an appendix 1.I thought it was a scarlet or scarlet X . We pulled the auction last night. We incinerated the bird to avoid any future problems.Thank you again

Here is a link to the cancelled auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/Professionally-M...QQcmdZViewItem

This helps to show that we can make a difference if we keep our eyes open & stay abreast of the laws that affect our psittazen companions.

[spectre]

Thank you Yehudasf. I was raised Jewish but have long since moved away from religion, one thing I personally feel is animals deserve the same respect in death that people do. Especially ones torn from thier natural habitat and thrown into cages for gawking onlookers. Being a rabii perhaps you could tell me what Judiasm has to say on the subject.

And sorry that the thread sparked off any unpleasantness, that was never my intention.

[yehudasf]

Originally Posted by Spectre

I was raised Jewish but have long since moved away from religion, one thing I personally feel is animals deserve the same respect in death that people do. Especially ones torn from thier natural habitat and thrown into cages for gawking onlookers. Being a rabbi perhaps you could tell me what Judiasm has to say on the subject.
And sorry that the thread sparked off any unpleasantness, that was never my intention.

Spectre, below I have quoted one of my posts in relation to a discussion of the status of animals as "property". Halacha is very clear on our absolute responsibility to treat animals most humanely. After all, Judaism explicitly states that animals have souls. This rather removes from debate the idea of whether or not an animal deserves respect & humane treatment. Please don't concern yourself about the unpleasantness, you bear no responsibility for the agenda of others. Besides,"a knife must be sharpened against stone or steel, it cannot be whetted by air".

I firmly support the concept of animal rights as propounded by Maimonedes, & Rashi, two great sages of blessed memory; to wit: All domesticated animals have an absolute right to food, clean,abundant water, shelter, rest companionship (either human if "household" domestic", or of their own species if "barnyard domestic", a quick & painless death by shcheta (kosher slaughter, wherein the carotid artery & the jugular vein are severed in one swift movement with a sharp, nick-free[to avoid tearing skin] knife, causing instant cerebral anoxia & loss of feeling & awareness) if they are a food animal. Animals have an absolute right to not have their offspring killed within 1/2 days walking distance of them. All animals have an absolute right to a day of rest on Shabbat, just as humans. If an animal is to be sold, it is obligatory upon the seller to verify the ability of the purchaser to provide for the animal, as well as the purchasers honest intent to abide by the proper treatment of animals. In the Torah HaKodesh we are explicitly commanded to first feed our animals, and then to feed ourselves. If the ox has no shelter he/she must be brought into the house (glad I don't own an ox).
While I recognise that western society regards animals as mere chattel, I am pleased to see this view begining to wane. More & more quite reputable research is showing that we are not the only self-aware, sentient, tool-using (and if you are a bird, tool creating & modifying) emotive, psychologically complex creatures on the planet.
I feel unutterably blessed to share my life with my psittazen companions. While the current laws hold sway I will make certain that they are kept from any possible tort inducing activity. Yet I eagerly await the day when we recognise the sovereign right of all emotive creatures to be free from pain, torment, deprivation, or emotional distress.

[Spinnergirl]

Thanks Yehudasf for your explaination, I respect your religion and your customs ~ more than I do any other (that I know).

And it seems that the EBAY lady was very pleasant with you, that is nice to hear that she appreciated your insight :)

[Freedomoflight]

"As you know these birds live a long time and rarely die"
Is it just me, or is that comment a bit odd?? Rarely die? That just lays wrong with me for some reason...
Oh well.

[QuakerLover4ever]

Poor bird...shameful people in this world... Poor macaw. Yeah Freedom that is very strange wonder how the bird passed away. Hmmm...



Taylor

[Alika]

Good! I'm glad that particular issue has been resolved.

I hadn't even thought of the CITES thing... great catch Yehuda!

It might interest you to know that I also sent her a message last night something to the effect of this: "Just so you're aware, that is a green-winged macaw and not a scarlet macaw" (Oh, how I wish I could have said something about CITES, but it didn't even cross my mind!)

I just checked my Ebay messages, and she sent me the exact same response she sent Yehuda... word for word. I wonder how many other complaints she got on the auction?

She actually had a bidder when I sent her a message last night. Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it?

As for why someone would want a dead macaw... I don't know. Those types of things make great museum and display pieces for educational facilities, and, as I said in the original post, if you want a parrot for status that you don't have to feed and clean up after or give attention to, maybe that's the bird for you.

There are people out there who enjoy collecting stuffed animals. Several years ago when I did my first run through college, a local family donated a very large collection of stuffed animals to the college for display. They had all sorts of animals that the family had collect themselves through hunting... animals from all over the world. I went and looked at it once, but it really creeped me out and I never went back.

Usually, though, specimens used for education are ones that are hard to get your hands on as live birds. In other words, why educate with a dead stuffed bird when you could use a live one?

We have all kind of bird parts for education, but the only parts we have from parrots are naturally molted feathers and a very interesting hyacinth macaw skull. The grossest thing we have is a great-horned owl scalp... but now I"m going off topic.

[Tiki]

Good job, Yehuda! And to think that only last week Ebay was actually considering lisiting LIVE animals for sale!

I just wish they would ban sale of dead animals too. I can't imagine having a dead stuffed parrot in my home. I have photos and video clips to immortalize my beloved birds who have passed on. Let them rest in peace under the hibiscus bushes.

[Vankarhi]

I totally agree with you Tara. When my pets pass over, they are buried in my garden under a nice tree. I must have read the lady's answer back to yehuda wrong, but did she say she was given the parrot from the zoo after it died?? Or did she forget to put a comma somewhere and I am just reading it wrong. The other thing, why would someone want a dead animal to buy??? i could not imagine having any of my pets stuffed (for want of a better word) and put into someone elses house. They are in photos and in my memory and heart forever. I am so heartbroken when they die that selling their bodies to someone just is inconcievable.

[spectre]

She seemed familiar enough to mislist a species. I tried emailing her to no avail so the whole thing strikes me as BS. If she was that knowledgeable then she probably deliberately mislisted it to avoid criminal charges. Interesting that she only responded after actuall repurcusions were possible. I can't help but thinking she was shady.