Crossing the Border

[sleslie]

Help
I want to go to New Hampshire with Moosie and Baba from June 9th to June 20th. We will be travelling in an RV from Ottawa
We have our Canadian Pet Bird Passports (CITES). I called the US fish and wildlife service and they now insist that I require a permit to import my two birds. We had called on Wed of last week and were told that the Canadian CITES permit (Pet Passport) was all that was required. Unfortuately my husband made calls to the vet with the USDA at the Champlain crossing and he was telling him he needed a fish and wildlife permit and a USDA permit and a cerified vet certificate stamped and co signed by the Canadian Gov't. AND he also said that he expects anyday now that they will close the border to pet birds, he is just waiting for the call due to this bird flu. This vet travels to various border crossings in NY and Vermot. He will be at the Derby Line VT border on Fridays so that is where we intend to cross. So George called Arlington VA back and now they insist that we have a permit 3-200-46 application send to be approved???? Now according to the information I have gathered from the fish and wildlife web site, this permit is for US citizens importing and exporting and re-exporting CITES endanagered species for purposes of travelling to other countries with their pet birds and returning after being out of the country for over a year. I also was told it is for WBCA permit. Now the USFWS also thought I needed a USDA permit, which I do not need crossing land ports. I filled out the application reluctately and sent it Thursday via UPS expeditated with the return courier inclosed and paid for, a money order for 50US dollars was attached. So now it is 60+ Canadian +68 canadian to courier the stuff which I do not require. Friday I took my birds to the vet and she examined them and did blood work and issued two certificates for a mere $285.00. From what I was told at the border I must pay $95.00 for the USFWS to stamp my petpassport and the WFS permit and 25.00 for a vet to see the bird. He is not an avian vet either. Plus on my return I will require the USFWS to stamp my pet passport and if I was a US citizen I would need an additional import USFWS permit but nothing was said about an export permit. Another cost of $95.00 US. This all seems horrendous, please if anyone has crossed the border, please give me some advise, I do not want my babies confinsated, which they say they can do if I don't have the proper paper work. Each gov't person seems to have a different story. By the way my vet told me I only needed my pet passport.

HELP PLEASE

[tielfan]

Someone on another board said that Canada has recently gotten MUCH nastier about letting US pets leave the country, and even when you think you have all the paperwork in order they may still give you a hard time. It's particularly a problem if you do anything that remotely connects you to the animal industry (for instance breeding a couple of budgies in your bedroom). In that case they demand that you get a commercial permit instead of an individual one (usually when you're already in Canada and are just trying to leave) and the costs escalate. Some people have spent large amounts of money and had long waits to get their own pets back. It sounds like you would really be safer to leave the birds with a sitter and go without them.

Edited to add: Oops, I misinterpreted - you're going from Canada to the US and back, and not the other way around. I don't know how nasty a process that is, but it certainly doesn't sound very friendly so far. There may even be some sort of retaliation going on here, where one country got tougher on pets crossing so the other one did the same to get even. You might still be better off to leave the birds at home.

[sleslie]

Plan B is the sitter. I realize that I may have to leave them with our sitter, but the point of this trip is to do test run crossing the border so we well be able to take our parrots with us when we travel in the US for long periods of time. This is the first time that we will be crossing the border with them. I just don't want to be paying for things that I don't need. That is the point of a pet passport. It is stamped at the Canadian border and again at the US border when entering the US. Just like people passports. We are both semi retired and will be doing more travelling in the future. I miss them when we are gone for a month at a time.

[Dustin]

i agree that leaving them with a sitter is a safer plan! You will miss them more if the government decides to keep them for a while!

[Quito's Qage]

Where I live in Maine is quite near the Canadian border. Since there are no avian vets nearby, I had given some thought to trying to find one on the Canadian side. From what I've been able to discern, it would be easier to get a permit to take an AK-47 back and forth across the border than it would be a pet bird.

I very much fear that rising concerns about the bird flu will only make all of this worse, and for no good reason. I hope you are able to take your birds with you on your travels, but I would expect glitches, and would always be aware that they could be confiscated at any crossing. My experiences with the disjointed manner in which customs officers apply the rules (or are even aware of the proper procedures) at various crossing points scares me enough that I wouldn't even dare try it.

[Stacey32]

Oh my goodness. I don't know what to say. I just wish you the best. I didn't realise it was that difficult. Please let us know how you go.

Stacey

[sleslie]

Originally Posted by Quito's Qage

Where I live in Maine is quite near the Canadian border. Since there are no avian vets nearby, I had given some thought to trying to find one on the Canadian side. From what I've been able to discern, it would be easier to get a permit to take an AK-47 back and forth across the border than it would be a pet bird.

I very much fear that rising concerns about the bird flu will only make all of this worse, and for no good reason. I hope you are able to take your birds with you on your travels, but I would expect glitches, and would always be aware that they could be confiscated at any crossing. My experiences with the disjointed manner in which customs officers apply the rules (or are even aware of the proper procedures) at various crossing points scares me enough that I wouldn't even dare try it.

It is certainly the case. Last month my husband and I went to Mrytle Beach (without the birds) and crossed at Ogensburg NY. They asked us if we had any chicken and beef. Of course we said yes as we did in the freezer for meals while we travelled. Well let me tell you, the US customs Officer asked us to pull over while they searched our Motor home and told me they could arrest me because I was getting upset. They insisted that they were protecting the US against bird flu and Mad cow disease. OMG, Canadian meat inspectors must be overlooking these in our meat. They delayed us for 3 hours to search our Motor home not only for the freezer and other food but for weapons (knives), money in excess of 10,000 dollars (I wish). They wanted to know if we were ever arrested (I've never even had a ticket). Believe me that's the last time I cross the border there. I will leave the burgers at home. Funny thing is I buy lots of meat at Costco and last week I purchased a whole tenderloin stamped USDA certified choice. Go figure!!

[Monica]

I know this might be somewhat irrelivent, although I do remember a story of someone trying to cross the border into Canada, and the person was asked if she had any knives. She said she did, but it was a plastic knife... and I guess they expected her to be doing something dangerous with that plastic knife and didn't want to let her pass (she did manage to though).

[homebird]

You know if you were a savvy felon none of this would upset you!

Because you're the average Canadian/American who basically is law-a-biding, you get all upset [shaken-up] when the 'authorities' rough up us [rubes is what we are]. They must get a hoot out of it - makes them look busy & diligent to superiors & to keep their jobs.
After all it is easier & safer work than actually finding 'bad' guys who would be dangerous to their health.

Chin up - too bad about all the bad stuff. Have heard all sorts of bad stuff too from others about the perils of traveling - obviously it can be true. My luck has always been good in this area. Have had nothing but great adventures in the States. Do as much of the paperwork that you can. First time, I'd try with only one bird or a decoy bird - sorry to the decoy - but the 'loss' is scary. [maybe you could hook-up w/ Quito if you have to leave a bird behind :-) ]

You really have to do a mental shake when you leave your own country. Your laws are not their laws - it doesn't matter that we're so similar in this case.

Hope your travels aren't too ruined - or you'll be seeing a lot of Canada in the upcoming months - maybe the Gov't could use your story for a travel Canada campaign

[MsSmurfy]

If anyone is interested, I do have a friend who works directly with this type situation...she was the Import/Exporter for the infamous ABRC in Florida a few years ago. ABRC has since closed its doors, however it was one of the largest avian breeding establishment in the USA possibly even beyond. They had some of the rarest & extraodinary feathered ones in the world at ABRC. She & I continue to work together with many bird issues[I won't elaborate...], but she can assist individuals on the legalities etc, import/export CITES including info on the various levels of CITIES etc ...she is extremely knowledgeable in this area. She continues to travel with high dollar RARE critters even today when the demand arises. She knows the laws & the avenues one must travel...including ALL/every breed at risk of not being permitted to return to the USA even though they were allowed to leave the states! I strongly suiggest contacting her, or leave your birds home.The risk nowadays is unbelievable! I have been carefully learning what I need as well as my friend in Tx needs once we manage to get our families finally moved to Costa Rica...email me for her email address if you are in need of accurate advice. I rather not post anyones private info out here as I have done times before. Exchanging bird information I try to cautiously post, on boards nowadays. Good luck with whatever choice you may make~