Difference USA-Sweden

[Yondo]

I have looked around on both mytoos and some other american sites the last months, (including birdboard, of course ) and I am from Sweden so...

I have noticed lots of differences between Sweden and USA in parrot keeping, and have wrote it down. The fact that some people are against wing clipping and small cages I understand, even if my text can make it seem opposite. I don't meen to "judge" people just because of the country they live in, it's just what I've seen. And I am mostly talking larger birds.

Accessories/species
USA
* White, "real" parrot cages, almost never more than a meter wide, even for large cockatoos and macaws.
* Purchased java trees, cotton ropes, a lot of plastic. Home-made things are rarely seen.
* Cockatoos, greys and conures are seen often, macaws and amazons fairly "ordinary", and senegals fairly rare,
caiques are rare, as pionus parrots.

Sweden
* Often home-made cages with wooden frames, or black parrot cages.
* "Climbing trees" with brances taken outside, sisal ropes, wood, wood and again, wood. (And also a lot of acrylic toys)
* Amazons, senegals and greys are seen very often. Macaws and pionus are fairly ordinary, as caiques. Cockatoos and conures are rare.

Sensitive subjects
USA/mytoos
* If a teenager wants a parrots it becomes very "hectic", it often ends with the teenager leaving the board or he/she changes his/her mind.
* Cage sizes are not really a "dangerous subject", the ideal cage size for a Umbrella/Moluccan are said to be 120x90 cm. (48x36")
If someone has a picture with a large 'too/macaw in a cage wich is only 1 meter wide (40") nobody complains.
* Wing clipping is even recommended, (at SOME sites) harnesses and flight suits seem to be fairly rare. The "excuse" is that the bird can be hurt when it flies inside, or can fly out.
* I have never heard anyone, ever, at any american messege board saying that you should have at least two birds of the same species.

Sweden
* If a teenager wants a parrot it does not become much difference in the "explanation" of parrots and their needs than if an adult person wants a parrot.
* Cage sizes is really a sensitive subject, and you risk being "hanged" if you have cage smaller than accepted size. (For example is the MINIMUM cage size for a Moluccan or a similar sized parrot 80x40x48", and a macaw can't have any cage smaller than 144x72x72")
* Wing clipping is also a sensitive subject, if you wing clip a parrot you can almost be categorized as being performing animal cruelty, by some people.
* The swedish seem to never get tired of saying "Immediatly get a friend for your parrot, and it must be the same species!"

Care
USA
* In USA it is often bought non-weaned parrot babies, both at breeders and pet stores. It seems to be a "crime" to wean a baby before at least seven months of age.(Cockatoos)
* It is repeated over and over (at least at mytoos) that you must COOK the birds food, thus give dem cooked vegetables, daily.

Sweden
* In Sweden non-weaned babies are bought rarely, wich is good. The most people here already knows it's not good. Nobody seems to worry about the little weaned baby cockatoo you just bought, wich is only four months old. And it's very, very rare with large parrots for sale in pet stores.
* In Sweden the parrot food consist of lots and lots of vegetables, like in the USA, but only fresh food and nobody seems to have heard of cooking your parrots food.
__________________________________________________ _________

And I wonders where the parrots can find cooked veggies in the wild?
And it is a shame that such "luxury" parrot cages often are so small, I have not seen any cage, what so ever, wich is bigger than Arkansas 2, wich is about 80x40x76". So if you want a legal cage to your macaw in Sweden you can't have a cage like that, but must order a "aviary" or build an own cage.

I am definitely not "against" having two birds of the same species, I don't understand why one would be. (Except the fact that male cockatoos can be very aggressive towards their mates)
But I have never seen anyone saying that on a american board, where one can have 5-6 parrots or more, and everyone are of different species. I have never seen something like that in Sweden. :/ (In Sweden you are amazing if you have three or more parrots and they are all of different species)

What I'm meaning with all this is that it's great differences in parrot keeping between USA-Sweden. By the way I have never seen ANY rescue in Sweden, wich seem to be lots of in USA. (Of course it is great with rescues, if it had existed rescues in Sweden I had not bought a baby 'too)

Notice: Not all of this are my personal opinions, such as cage sizes. I have not decided that.
This does not have anything to do with me, just so you know.

[tielfan]

I guess it all depends on where you do your observations! Some of your comments are fairly on target and I don't agree with others.

Greys aren't rare in the US. They're the most numerous species at the monthly meetings of my local bird club, and I know a lot of people on various internet groups who have them. Sennies are fairly common too.

Aviary cages are often homemade but indoor cages are usually bought. People have the money to buy them, and the cages are generally expected to be stronger and safer than a homemade one. Using wooden frames in a cage for a large parrot is generally considered to be a bad idea because it's difficult to prevent the birds from shredding the wood.

Many people make their own toys and play gyms. I've made a few toys myself.

Using wood from outdoor trees is only a good idea if the trees are chemical free, and a lot of them aren't in the US. But there are many people (including me) who have bird-safe trees in their yard and give their birds branches to play with.

Buying unweaned babies: it happens sometimes but is heavily discouraged. Reputable breeders don't do it.

Teenagers often aren't responsible enough to make the decades-long commitment that comes with buying a large parrot. Neither are a lot of adults, for that matter. EVERYBODY needs to educate themselves and think carefully before they buy a bird.

48"x36" is the minimum cage size for a big 'too, not the ideal size.

You need to have two birds of the same species if you're planning to breed them or if you're not planning to pay a lot of attention to them. If you want a tame pet and are willing to spend the time necessary to satisfy its social needs, then one is enough.

Wing clipping is common and can be an important safety factor under the right circumstances. Again, the owner needs to be educated and should consider the issue carefully.

It's generally accepted that raw food is almost always better than cooked food. Certain items (like most dried beans) are indigestible unless they're cooked.

[Yondo]

Okay okay, greys are not really rare, but I see more greys here than in USA, compared to other species. And these are of course not my personal "opinions".

[Babyblue033]

Wing clipping is just as sensitive a subject for some people in the US as it apparently is in Sweden. Perhaps not quite so on this board (don't know about mytoos), but I've been to a forum where a subject of wing clipping will almost always bring up tension and heated "discussions"

As for teenagers and parrots, my own experience has been that I was not ready for a parrot when I was a teen and if I had gotten one that early on it would've been a disaster for both myself and my bird. Of course, everyone is different and I've seen many teens who are more responsible than most adults and make wonderful parronts, but I know my life had lots of up and downs since highschool and I would think this would be true for most teens. I would worry how many teens can stick it out with their birds through all those life altering changes, when I still feel like my life hasn't "settled" at age 27

[Yondo]

Besides, I'm not saying Sweden is "better", this is just differences I have noticed.

[Yondo]

Originally Posted by Babyblue033

As for teenagers and parrots, my own experience has been that I was not ready for a parrot when I was a teen and if I had gotten one that early on it would've been a disaster for both myself and my bird. Of course, everyone is different and I've seen many teens who are more responsible than most adults and make wonderful parronts, but I know my life had lots of up and downs since highschool and I would think this would be true for most teens. I would worry how many teens can stick it out with their birds through all those life altering changes, when I still feel like my life hasn't "settled" at age 27

Of course I understand that, there are very few teenagers (and people what so ever) who can properly care for a parrot.

[tielfan]

It's occurred to me that there may be a difference in what Swedes and Americans expect from the bird-owning experience. In the US, we generally expect to have a bonded, interactive relationship with the bird in which the bird is frequently out of the cage so we can handle it and play with it.

The practices in Sweden seem to be more adapted to the goal of having something lively and colorful to look at without a lot of handling. In that case you DO need bigger cages, since the bird won't be getting a lot of out of cage time. Clipping isn't an issue, since a bird in a big cage is in no danger of crashing into a wall or window or flying out the door. Two birds are necessary since the human won't be providing a lot of companionship.

The other alternative is that Swedes are FAR more educated about training and general bird care than Americans are. It takes skill and commitment to tame a bird well and keep it that way, especially with the larger parrots, and many Americans who buy a bird have no idea of what they're getting into and can't do the job right. That's why so many birds end up being rehomed or in rescues.

[The Outlaw]

That was my observation too. I think that in America, we want to have a pet companion that wants to be with us, interacting with us all the time. I have 10 larger parrots, mostly larger macaws, and I wouldn't think of caging them together. I tried it with my two male BGs and they over bonded. It was a power struggle to remove the younger from its cage. It won't happen again, I can promise you.

And, we have too many birds here in the States needing good homes now. The thought of pairing up birds and allowing them to just breed would ultimately lead to rescues filling up and birds be euthanized. Most bird lovers here just aren't willing to lose their pet bonds.

With so many species readily available here, just about EVERY commonly kept parrot, that we tend have more flocks of larger birds here in pet households than most of the Scandanavian countries. It seems from posters here and on other boards, that medium sized and smaller parrots are more often kept where you live. On average, according to the boards that I routinely post on, I'd say larger parrot owners usually have at least 3 birds and usually more like 5 or 6 here in the states often with a few "starter birds" like budgies, tiels and lovies.

[Lisa B]

välkommen Yondo!

I did not know that there was alot of differences between the Swedes bird keeping and our own here in the US. I gather its because I dont regularly communicate with people from my grandparents homeland.
I can tell you that through my years of growing up in the Vasa Order,
I always had my birds with me at the park**LOL**http://www.vasaorder.com/
I've had birds since age 8. I started out with Budgies, and now am the proud
mor of 3 African Greys, a Caique, Double Yellow Headed Amazon, and A tiel.

Welcome to the board.

[kp_in_scott]

I agree that there are differences in parrot keeping in different countries. Just as there are different customs on many things. Please be aware that in the USA when wing clipping is referred to, we are talking of clipping wing "feathers" and not the actual wing which would permanently disable the bird. This term is often misunderstood in translation.. What we do is like getting a hair cut or our nails trimmed. They grow back.