Birds Laying Eggs & Stress (long post)

[Monica]

Birds don't normally like to lay eggs unless they are comfortable and have a place to lay... of course then there are some birds who lay whether or not they have a nest or mate. I've heard of some birds who lay when they have an overabundance of calcium, and buy laying eggs they reduce the amount of calcium in their bodies to a more leveled amount. I've also noticed birds laying eggs under stress...

One bird of mine to lay eggs was Casey, and only because she and Noel had a "nest", which was more or less so an upturned box that Noel liked sleeping in.... And well we all know how tiels and dark cozy spots are!!! Resolved by removing the cardboard box.

There were also an older pair of bourkes who laid eggs not long after moving to a new home (and of course back then I can't say I was as knowledgeable but I had read lots and was reading even more afterwards). I more or less so caught them in the action of doing the deed and gave them a nestbox.... It wasn't until their second clutch of eggs they had any chicks at all... of course this also brought the daughter into the hormonal stages so I had moved her to a separate cage to prevent breeding with her father. And most recently, for unknown reasons that I can find, and no male bourkes around, the only daughter then, started laying eggs. This was resolved by moving her and her little sister to a smaller cage.

I can't really say any of the birds so far mentioned have laid eggs due to stress.... But then we have the tiel family, one of the tiels of which was a chronic egg layer, with her eggs being destroyed due to a grate and probably laying off of a perch??? Resolved once the tiel family was moved into a new home (mine?) and only 1 egg was laid here... In previous home however, they (4 tiels) were stuck in a ferret cage (looks like a bird cage actually... 'bout 4' tall, less than 2' wide/length) and there was constant heavy smoking around them. In this case, I'd say egg laying would be due to stress.

Then there was Tom... in a small cage, which was upgraded to a house style cage.... Constantly smoked around, only fed seeds when someone remembered to give her more or change her water.... had a cover kept over her a lot of the time to keep her quiet... Then slowly starved to death, as she became a chronic egg layer, and her eggs were being removed.... for who knows what reasons... This issue was resolved when I took her in as a foster, fed her (the lowest I weighed her in at was 58 grams! ), gave her calcium supplement, and put her in a larger cage (the so called ferret cage, good for 1 tiel!). No issues sense!

I also knew of a lovebird under similar circumstances as to what Tom went through, although I doubt she was treated as badly since she was fed, and I can't recall a cover going on her cage unless it was at night maybe??? Although there were a couple little kids around who I'm sure got pretty loud at times... She too, stopped after she was put in a new home.

And just to mention one other case I know of around here... A family had a pair of tiels (had two at one time, though lost the female and gave the male away), and the female laid an egg (around the time they were moving to a new house). They gave her a shoebox (after the move), and after nothing came of the eggs they gave the pair a budgie nestbox.... She kept laying, no eggs were hatching, so I finally took the nestbox out and "hid" it, which stopped her from laying. Her mate is now gone, and she's the only tiel left now... and she's laying eggs... circumstances aren't that great as there's constant smoke around her, although cage is cleaner, it's not cleaned, and there's mice that run rampage within the home.... (this is a home that was reported to animal control, and I've only seen one change made...) issue remains unsolved...



I know this is a long post, but wanted to bring up this subject, and how I've seen some birds laying eggs under stress, and how it helped with them being in a new environment or how in some birds removing the stimuli to lay eggs stopped them from laying in the first place. I know some members have birds who occasionally start laying eggs. In some cases they can't get their birds to stop. I haven't tried anything as drastic as hormone shots as I have yet a need to... Thought that maybe some other members might also like to share their experiences with egg layers (not including breeders who are letting their birds breed/lay eggs intentionally! ) Who knows though, maybe someone out there is looking for ways to get an egg layer to stop?

[Nelsbels]

Lots of good information, Monica.
Thanks

[SnowboundVT]

I just read your long and very interesting post. Have you hear any more about cronic egg layers?

[trtldove76]

Thanks for all that info. This is one post everyone should read just because it may help with a problem they have now or in the future. Cheers

[Cindy215]

Egg laying is a hormonal imbalance brought about by too much light since birds have a sensor in the brain (pituitary gland) regulating their hormones. It tells the body every day and every day of the year how to act.

Those birds were exposed to all the wrong things but primarily were not given a strict natural daylight schedule including dawn and dusk. Other triggers are dark nests, stroking excessively, exposure to other pairs, abundance of food mimicing spring but first and foremost the light issue has to be addressed. This is for all captive birds not just one showing symptoms.

Here's my standard post (written for someone else). This info also applies to hormonal males too.

QUOTE:
It's not breeding season in the Northern Hemisphere so your bird is having a hormonal imbalance. That comes from the days being too long like simulating spring/summer.

If you follow a strict natural daylight schedule including dawn and dusk this wont happen. No artificial lights after about 3 pm. She needs to go to sleep in a darkish room, no human interruptions like tv, radio, computers , people talking etc. A cover really doesnt cut it. They have a sensor in the brain (pituitary gland) regulated by light that controls the hormones telling the body what "time of year it is". Thats how they make chickens lay eggs 24/7 in factory farms by leaving lights on all the time. Then they die about age 3.

Right now in Pa, my birds go to sleep at about 5:40 pm and wake up about 7 am EST.

You can simulate with a dimmer in a small lamp placed on the floor (to simulate the angle of the sun) but it's trickier. Walmart sells a dimmer you screw in where the bulb goes and has a dial to turn it down, down, then off. The ones you tap arent right they only have three options.

So essentially follow the light schedule that is going on in your state at all times of year. For people in extreme climates like Alaska you have to adjust I never had a bird there, though.

Also decrease protein (including seeds), and vitamin e, and raise the greens and veggies.

Also no stroking beaks, feet, back or butts. That's a mating signal.

Dont allow her to "nest" in dark spots like behind pillows, in shirts, in drawers, bookcases, under toekicks of the kitchen cabinets, in closets etc.

Move her around to brightly lit spots all day, encourage her AWAY from her cage (nest), get her to fly around and find enrichment to do not focus all day long on her hormonal urges.

Change the inside of the cage around, change toys, perches, swap food and water bowls etc. These things are subliminal messages that it's not a "safe" nest.

All these things together will work to snap her hormones back into place but the lighting is number one. Then when it's "really" breeding season, she'll have an easier time of it. I don't know her age but it will be a yearly thing in breeding season so you want to minimize her anxiety all year long so it's only a mild deal every year not something she is fighting all year long. Especially now since it's winter.

UNQUOTE

I also posted this in the form of a vet article in the past but dont know where it went offhand. And she didnt emphasise the lighting enough and the dawn and dusk which is critical.

[Monica]

Other than the normals about egg laying, no I haven't noticed anything else.

Cindy, I would like to point out some things within your own post... I know that daylight has a LOT to do with egg laying... and the bourkes went to sleep with the sun and woke with the sun, also getting dawn and dusk, and there was nothing within the environment encouraging her to lay.

As for the cockatiel family, I don't really know what sort of environment they were in other than a way too small age, and being smoked around constantly, so thus probably in a very dimly lit home.... but I don't know.

With Tomi Girl, well she was covered most of the time and yet she too laid eggs. She wasn't encouraged per say, but she was laying eggs anyway. She was covered most of the time due to the fact that she was "too noisy". She even laid and sat on eggs even though she was being starved to death too. That in itself doesn't make any sense other than possibly from stress? Food was put near the bottom, and she DID eat from it... WHEN there was food in it...


Can't really say too much about the lovebird as I don't know what her entire situation was like either...

I don't know about the female tiel who lost her mate, supposedly to mice, but then again I haven't gone to that home in months now... she too though lives in a home that is dimly lit, is trashed, cage isn't cleaned...

So all in all, I'm just trying to find out WHY these birds, that are being kept in less than adequate conditions, are laying eggs.

[Cindy215]

Monica, I really cant tell enough from your post. Do these Bourke birds live with you now? The daughter too? if the Bourkes didnt live with you the whole time and you were new to birds how can you be sure they were kept in optimum conditions? You know how people are. They might say they went to sleep in dusk and dawn but meanwhile were flipping lights off and on all night. Was it spring anyway? They were in a pair. They're going to lay. I dont think you should take the anecdotal cases into too much as fact. Mostly when people tell stories or describe what they do, they leave something out or dont say things accurately, imo. Apparently it resolved when things were changed around....

I would say what they all have in common is still the standard things, the "wrong hours", aka "wrong lighting", a high protein diet and/or vitamin e (seed only), being in nesty (including being covered) spots, stuck in cages all the time without being let out, and a hormonal imbalance gone out of control. Even if they get let out they'll find something like a corner or nest to nest in. Being in a dim environment throws them into hormonal imbalance. Because the brain sensor is getting nesting type light.

Same with the Tiels they stopped when they came to your house and you changed things.

It tales a long time to fix egg laying especially with Tiels.

If you're trying to make linkage between stress and egg laying, I guess you could call it that. But I don't exactly see it that way. I see it as typical behavior when they live in the wrong conditions. Living in the conditions I outlined is stress unto itself. Yes egg laying in itself is stressful too.

This is why I keep posting about following a natural daylight schedule. I think it's really remarkable that so many birds are kept up so late at night. Totally stressful.

My coworker has a Tiel in that condition and she just wont make the proper changes. The bird is kept in the dining room and nobody goes to bed till 11 pm. Everybody is up by 6 am eating with the lights on in the dining room again. A lousy seven hours sleep. Seed only, and they even gave her a nest when I told them not to. I would consider that stress but not in the same abusive conditions that your birds were kept in. She lays eggs.

But essentially it's from all the "rules" being broken at once, I'd say. Since you proved it mostly in all of them by making husbandry changes revolving around the cages being changed or some version of that.

I've never read or have reason to believe that "just" stress causes egg laying but I can see where birds under stress can still lay eggs.

Because they've been abused or neglected for so long once the egg laying started it just never stopped. And it could have started long before they deteriorated so much or before you got them.

Take other types of stress, for example. Say when you add a bird to a normal functioning house with a healthy non egg laying bird. That existing bird will be stressed. Animals are stressed when they are happy AND upset not just upset. Their bodies go through stress. So you dont have all these healthy birds laying when they are "stressed". Even from a move from one house to another. You see plucking more in those cases.

I think it's a good idea to ponder but I dont believe just stress causes laying. It's the conditons that go with the stressfull life. Also evidenced in that the so called "happiest" bird will still lay when triggered. With lighting, wrong diet, too much stroking, being allowed in dark or dim spots etc.

I dont believe you will see egg laying unless the conditions in my post are there, not necessarily in entirety but at least some. And always the lighting is the number one issue. Which ALSO means, btw that they need to get bright light during the day to be normal. Living in a dim house is like living in a nest 24/7. You'll see a messed up hormonal deal.

[Monica]

Yes, the bourkes lived with me during this time. It happened early April, of '06. The pair? They are sisters, and were not around any other birds being hormonal (except for say a cockatiel who's always hormonal throughout the entire year mostly). The egg laying stopped when placed in a smaller cage and resumed when put back in the larger cage.... they've been in the smaller cage since. They were in a room that's about 9' x 11', with a window facing west, and one facing south, although they still get quite a bit of light in the evening too.. The "curtains" are opened in the morning (a bit after the sun has come up somewhat) and closed well after the sun has gone down... as it is, the curtains aren't so thick they completely limit light, but they aren't so light that they fill the entire room with light either. The room was painted with the color "ice glacier" or something similar, thus it's a very light blue, and there's one wall that is white (due to drywall), and the closet area is unpainted (thus it's a brown paneling color). With the paint in it, the room as really brightened up, so thus it is NOT a dark or dim room.

Seed only diet? No, these two do eat fresh foods, although they haven't been eating as much as they used to, they still eat fresh foods. There were no covered or nesty type spots other than the food dishes. The cage they were in at the time is a flight cage, measures about 36"L x 18"W x 45"H, so they still got a good amount of exercise as they had room to move about. The older bourke isn't tame either, thus there are some issues with letting her fly about.

Can't really say I know why she was laying... point being was that I wasn't encouraging her to lay and she still did. And also for the fact that they say that TOO MUCH light can cause egg laying, when there are plenty of birds kept in dimly lit homes, or ones where-in the birds are covered.... and they will lay eggs there too. Just trying to open up the idea that there is far more to egg laying out there, and that all factors need to be taken into account.

[ROYJOY]

i have a zebra hen that is an egg laying machine. she wont have sex but she lays egg after egg aftrer egg. no children, no mice, and no smoke. my other pairs are successfuly haveing young.