Spoiling too much?

[Mothi]

For those who don't know, a quick back story.

Yazhi is a 9 week old GCC who is on 1 feeding at night now. I have had him since he was about 3 weeks old. In the beginning, he lived in a small critter carrier next on my desk next to me. Then when he finally was ready for a cage, he would play in his cage (which was on one side of my desk near me again) in the day, then go back to his baby carrier at night. Again, he was always around me. While sitting at my desk, I often let him roam back and forth between his day and night cage. I didn't let him do this all day long, but every day I would say at least 4 hours was outside cage time.

Finally when hardwood floors were put in my bedroom, I moved everything back into my bedroom. (Well excluding the desk seeing as I had other desks upstairs.) The new arrangement made it so his day cage was not near my desk. I would say it is about 6 feet away. His night cage is near my desk on top of a shelf, but I plan to move it once his play gym is completed. His play gym and night cage will all be near his day cage. Confused yet?

He still gets 4+ hours out of his cage, but I have one hell of a time with him. For a while he kept flying to my dogs cage and perching there. I decided it had to stop so I rearranged my puppies cage more out of the way and started to use the water bottle when he flew for the cage. He has stopped flying for my dog's cage, but still flies to where it once was which is now a mat area for my dog. I am still using the water bottle to deter him from that. He also flies for the sink area in my bedroom that I want him to stay away from.

His play gym is halfway complete. I just need to do the base so it is more elevated. The problem I have is he keeps flying off his gym and cage to the floor. I put on his flight suit before he can come out to play though to teach him if he wants fun he has to wear it. The thing is he keeps flying off and scampering across the floor to under my chair (because with the flight suit on he can't really fly upwards with the added weight). I don't want to roll over him and I want him to learn to stay on his play gym.

How do I teach him to stay on his play gym when he wants to be close to me? I can hardly blame him since he has had lots of attention when I am around. His screaming at least is going down, but still reaches annoyance with me, but again, how can I blame him. (His screaming started once we moved into my bedroom since I had to go downstairs now to make his formula or get myself something to eat.) Am I expecting too much for him not to scream for me in such a demanding manner and not wanting to stay on a gym so he can get to me? I know he will contact call, but his screaming is just very demanding. Should I be moving his gym and cage closer to my desk so he will feel more comfortable? I have also been entertaining getting him a companion later because I do feel bad for him, but it would end up being a budgie instead of another conure.

Yazhi will always be my baby and I am still learning the way of the birds. Dogs I know and can adapt training to mold appropriate behaviors, but birds are another thing.

Also, when I am in the room and he is in his cage, he paces a lot to get out. He tries to push his butt out the top of the cage or squeeze his back out the corner of his cage. While doing this he makes a constant peep sound. I have restrained from letting him out when he does this so he doesn't turn it into an annoying behavior to demand getting out.

Anyone want to give advice?

[Alyce Johnson]

GCCs need another GCC! That's my advice. A budgie will not solve any problems.
In fact, you'll have your GCC bullying your budgie, most likely.

Conures in general are large flock birds. That means they are hardwired to be anxious and upset when they do not have constant visual or aural confirmation that their flock mates are all well, and safely accounted for.

Silence or absence means you may have been eaten - which means HE may be next! When you are where he can't see you or hear you, his anxieties are triggered, as he thinks you're dead & that HE is about to be next! :ee:

This is because you are currently his entire flock. IMO that's NOT a desirable position to be in with respect to a conure! The pyhurra genus is quieter than the aratingas. (I own both.) But that's a *relative* statement.
The pyhurras are still plenty loud enough to break your nerves, exhaust your patience & anger your neighbors.
They just don't have a call that will peel paint off your walls, is all.

When I had only one GCC she would call for me when I left the house for work. I could hear her plainly all the way out the door, down the stairs, and across the street to my parking space! I am not kidding. This behavior ceased, when we got her a companion GCC. (I now have 3 adorable female GCCs who delight in each other!)

Get him a companion. Make sure it's the same sex, as GCC mating issues include mortal violence.
Your problem will be handily solved.

The benefit will also be that they are incredibly fun to watch play together & groom each other, etc. I can't even tell you how adorable they are when you have more than one! But the most wonderful thing about it is that they will be Blessedly Quiet! They will still vocalize all the time. It will just be little cute noises that you'll enjoy hearing, instead of the contact call 24/7.

Because this behavior is so universal across varieties of conures, and because it seems to be a hard wired survival strategy, I seriously doubt you can "train" him out of it. Birds are less domesticated than cats or dogs, so their survival traits are more stubbornly fixed in them, and less readily changed. I'd say you must adapt to him. Give him what he needs, which is another flock mate for *constant* companionship. He's genuinely upset, which is not a good state to have him in - he may become even more neurotic, not less, as time goes by.

[stepht25]

Originally Posted by Mothi

How do I teach him to stay on his play gym when he wants to be close to me?

With all my fids (not just the conures) when we introduced them to playgyms etc. they would almost always fly off a lot in the beginnning. Lots of patience and retrieving the bird - not saying anything to it or petting it - just step them up and place them back where you want them. Once they are on the gym and stay there for even 30 seconds - we would praise and sometimes give a treat. Then we would wait a little longer before praising/treating again and just keep extending the time. With Kirby - if it looked like he was getting ready to fly off I would tell him no (sometimes would work sometimes not - when it did work - lots of praise and a treat). I also made sure to change the toys on the gym frequently (exept for the fids that take a little time to warm up to new toys) so they wouldn't be bored. I also make foraging treats (something like a little millet wrapped in plain paper etc.) and tie them to various places on the gyms. I let them see me wrap the treats and attatch them to the gyms the first several times so they knew there was food there. Then they get busy looking for the food and trying to get it out and forget about trying to fly off (usually ). Zoey has been my most persistant fid when it comes to flying off her cage or play area. I think this is partly because she's still in our bedroom and can hear the rest of the flock but can't see us. I'm hoping this will improve once she's moved out with the rest of the gang (this weekend!). With her I have actually given her little "time outs" in her cage when she is determined to not stay on me or her play area. I think it's working some. I personally think birds are like children in the way that they need to be taught how to entertain themselves for periods of time. After all - Mommy and Daddy can't play with them 24/7! Just my .02

P.s.
A friend of mine bought herself some earplugs when she got her alexandrine and was trying to teach him to play by himself for short periods of time. It was the only way she was able to stand it and not give in to him.

[Nelsbels]

Hi, I have a similar problem as yours. My bluecrown conure is 16 weeks old. I have raised her since she was 6 weeks old. I tried not to spoil her right from the start. I held her only when feeding her for 10min. after cuddling her and when she could perch I let her out on a playgym for longer periods of time. Buuutttt....even with my good intentions, she has become very demanding. Her cage is in my dining room where she can see me when I am in the living room, or Fla. room where my computer is. She screams, demanding attention even after I have played with her for a half hour and then put her back in the cage. Whenever I walk by her cage during the day she will scream to be picked up. Thank God she stops after a couple of minutes. I ignore her screams as I have tried other things to get her to stop. When she is screaming and won't stop after a couple of minutes I cover her cage and do not uncover it until she has been quiet for 5 minutes.
I also bought another little bird, a parrotlet to keep her company and this did no good. They ignore each other and she is jealous of my attentions to the new bird.
I have recently read that this is precisely why handfeeding your own bird is discouraged. The bird views you as the mother and since it is your bird it never gets the opportunity to "leave the nest". If I were to sell my bird right now it would probably never scream like this for its new owner.
I wish I had read this before attempting raise my own bird. The only reason I did handfeed my own bird is because I spent a year going to bird shows looking for a blue crowned conure and the only ones ever available were unweaned birds.
I think we will have to learn to live with the screaming unless we are lucky and they outgrow it as they get older.
Without the screaming, my Gabby is the most adorable, playful, cute, hilarious, and fun bird that I could ever hope to have.
Earplugs might be a good idea.
Sorry I don't have any suggestions but maybe seeing that someone else has the same problem helps a little.

[Mothi]

I never heard that said for having hand raised your own birds. When I worked at one pet store, I was responsible for hand feeding any birds that needed it on my shifts. One baby in particular I bonded to. He was a red lory. When he finally was weaned, I was still allowed to bring him (and other hand fed birds) out on the sales floor for interaction time. It so happened that he didn't like others bringing him out other than me although the other birds didn't have this attitude towards others. In the end, I decided to buy him since I couldn't see him leaving me. He would holler for attention or try to solicit it whenever he had the chance, but no more than other hand fed birds I have had (cockatiel and lovebirds) that I didn't hand raise myself. His bond though was a lot stronger, but hardly comparable to the other birds since both of them had their own companions.

Yazhi's attitude has been adjusting to the better with his new play gym built and mostly done so he can use it now. He has even accepted staying on it and seems to love it although it lacks entertaining toys at this moment. I think his attitude was more from the lack of sufficient stimulation and fustration from me that he was getting into everything I didn't want him into when out because he didn't have his own place to play. He still wants time special with me, but after about 30 minutes, he is happy on his gym. He no longer needs me to take him to his night cage to play since everything is close to each other that he can go where he wants in his area. He can go back into his day cage whenever he wants to eat and drink, play with toys, or perch on his favorite spot. He can go to his gym and climb around or jump into his night cage and knibble on some treats.

How is the parrotlet doing if you still have him. Have they accepted one another yet? I was hoping maybe Yazhi can later have a budgie companion... one that is handfed though. How old was your conure before you got a companion? If a companion is given early on, do they accept each other better?

[Quito's Qage]

As far as Yahzi being so needy of you, Alyce certainly has a viable solution provided that's the direction you want to go. Just be aware that he's probably not going to be as close to you if you get him a companion. Other than that, about all you can do is start trying to get him accustomed to not being right with you all the time. I imagine it's going to be a pretty noisy process. Lucky for you that he's a GC and not a BC!

As far as staying on the playstand, Stephanie pretty well covered it. When I first got Quito, it was impossible to keep her on a playstand for more than a few seconds. It required days of putting her back on, over and over. I also did lots of positive reinforcement by giving her little bits of cut up apple for staying put. After a while she started to get the idea. It's important not to give him a treat just after you pick him up and put him back on the playstand, because then he'll get the idea that the way to get a treat is to jump off the stand. If he's on the stand though, and you can see he's starting to get antsy, then distract him with a treat, or get him to step-up and give him a bit of attention before returning him to the stand. If he flys off the stand, don't make a big deal of it! Just step him up and replace him on the stand without saying anything. When he stays put for a bit, praise him and treat him. If it gets to the point where you're getting frustrated, or he's obviously getting frustrated, then its probably a good idea to just return him to the cage for a while. Again, without comment or fuss. After you've both cooled off, try some more.

Be aware that he's probably never going to be content to sit on the playstand for any length of time without interaction with you. If I'm not sitting in the chair beside the stand, Quito will stay for a few minutes on her own, but not much more. If I'm across the room cleaning cages, I have to remind myself to go speak to her, give her a treat, rattle one of the toys, or whatever. If the playstand has treat cups, you might try putting a few pellets in it - that helps keep Quito occupied as well. If the playstand is not located near to where you are though, you're probably not going to have much luck getting him to stay put for very long.

I don't particularly like the idea of using a squirt bottle to deter him. Aside from the fact that many people like to use squirt bottles for showers, this is basically punishment, and negative reinforcement. Especially dangerous if he comes to associate it as coming from you. Is he clipped? If not, and if you want him to stay in specific areas and stay out of others, I'd seriously consider clipping him.

Keep in mind that all of this is just IMHO, and from my limited experience.

[Nelsbels]

Hi,
I had my conure about a month when we got Sammy the parrotlet. Sammy is doing fine but is not the cuddely fid that Gabby is. Sammy steps up well and seems to love my husband more than me which is fine since Gabby is a Mama's girl. When we put both on the playstand they go towards each other with their mouths open like they are going to bite each other. This scares me cause Gabby is soooo big and Sammy is soooo small and I don't put them on the playstand together much. Maybe in time they will come to like each other since they are both young. From all that I have read it is a 50/50 chance that two birds will like each other. All you can do is try but be prepared for them to not like each other cause each bird you have takes a lot of work.

[Tiki]

It's a Catch-22. Yazhi might bond with a new bird in preference to you or not get along with the new bird. Given his young age, I think he is likely to bond to the new bird.

[The Outlaw]

I'd be VERY careful about putting ANY parrotlet with any other smaller bird. They are very aggressive. That's just looking for an accident. Most parrotlets don't get to their third birthday because of accidents. Beware.

[Alyce Johnson]

Mature GCCs are notoriously territorial & aggressive too. My eldest has attacked my cats! The cats were sleeping - she flew down there & went after them! (they were sleeping too near her cage for her tastes) My CH conure chases the amazons all over their play gyms. I have to give him a time out from them, to get them some peace.

So if you put 2 aggressive little birds together...I agree with the Outlaw - that's a "looking for trouble" scenario.