Protect your self when buying a bird from a person!

[Tishrei]

wow, really a tragedy. I'm really sorry.

As an FYI, small claims is civil court, it's just a lower branch (so to speak) in the civil court system. The civil courts have designed a "do it yourself" type of system where people can sue without having to go through the expense of lawyers, etc.

As to the other person that is trying to keep the bird and not return it, and this may sound harsh but it's not intended to be harsh. Not only do I not see how they can keep it, but I hope they lose. Here's why. What if someone stole my beloved bird, Ducky and I found out where he was? What if Ducky ended up in someone's home that was a good home and they legitmately thought they were getting a bird that was not stolen? Should I pay the consequences and relinquish what is rightfully mine simply because someone stole him? I would hope the courts don't take the position "well, I realize you lost your property to theft but too bad, someone else bought your stolen property and now it's theirs."

I'm really sorry about all this.

[xafsmom]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. I'm glad that you surrendered the bird back to his original owners though. It'd be like having someone adopt your child who was stolen from you. As mean as this sounds also and I don't want it to sound such..., I'm glad that it happened so quickly - before you grew even more emotionally bonded with Buddy. You did the right thing in returning him, even though it's left you with a lot of sadness. I hope that you get yourself a new bird though.

I used to raise arabian horses and every horse I sold (usually weaned foals), I sold with a contract stating this horse was mine to do with what I wanted. I know there are bird contracts out there, and while a piece of paper can end up being meaningless - as in your case above, it could assist you with some form of proof of fraud in case you take it to court. It will at the very least establish that you purchased the bird in good faith of a reputable deal.

When I bought Xaf, the breeder was willing to give me a receipt for purchase, but it was a cash register deal (the breeder had a small 'specialised' shop as well). I brought my own sale contract up, and had her sign it, along with my signature as buyer. It was a small thing for peace of mind, in the case of a breeder coming back and claiming I stole her bird - if that ever happened!

[sassie]

Thanks everyone. Im not sure how others cant not return the bird either. But to each his own, maybe they had more time invested? Or alot of medical bills ect? Im not sure, but I couldnt not -- even though I loved him. I didnt love him that deeply as of yet, as someone noted.

I just think this stinks (being selfish) for us. It sounds like a long time coming to get that money back IF we ever do! *sigh*

I dont need more birds, some time's it just happens like that -- that I get more.
I dont have my heart set on anything right now except loving MY own that NO one dare better ever try to take away. Plus now, I will be focusing more on how to protect Myself and others in "dealing" with people we dont know.

[Chico's Mom]

I'm so sorry you had to go through this. I hope that you will be able to find peace in regards to this situation, knowing that Buddy is in good hands, and I hope that something good comes along and replaces the money spent for your bird. I pray that you will see something good come from this.

[saucie]

Originally Posted by PowerBBS

Call the local county/city district attorney on the matter and have fraud charges filed against those thieves and then inquire about possible "civil" charges you're considering to be filed against the police department itself for failing to enact their legal responsibilities to uphold the law, because they failed to arrest them on the charge in the first place - telling you to take care of it yourself in civil court. Fraud is not a civil matter but a felony with heavy fines and can even entail jail time.

Just so you know... there is no such thing as a civil matter (other than violating a court order) that can entail jail time. Also keep in mind the criminal charge of fraud will not necessarily result in you getting your money back. That part would be a civil suit, unless you used the fraud charge as a bargaining chip to negotiate a refund for "no/reduced charges".

In any case call the local district attorney and they'll issue an arrest warrant based on the fraud charge. From the sounds of it you have plenty of evidence.

Fraud can be both criminal and tortious.

Originally Posted by sassie

Thanks everyone. Im not sure how others cant not return the bird either. But to each his own, maybe they had more time invested? Or alot of medical bills ect? Im not sure, but I couldnt not -- even though I loved him. I didnt love him that deeply as of yet, as someone noted.

I just think this stinks (being selfish) for us. It sounds like a long time coming to get that money back IF we ever do! *sigh*

I dont need more birds, some time's it just happens like that -- that I get more.
I dont have my heart set on anything right now except loving MY own that NO one dare better ever try to take away. Plus now, I will be focusing more on how to protect Myself and others in "dealing" with people we dont know.

Just some thoughts because I see this a lot in collections cases: After getting a judgment, you do have some avenues other than the defendant voluntarily paying. You can put a lien on personal assets or garnish wages. I think some states also have a program where they would have to work to pay off the debt, along with the fees that they already need to pay for being jailed.

Just a caution for everybody in the future: It's a crime to receive stolen goods as well, and I sort of count you as lucky that you weren't also charged. It's very hard to prove that you had no previous knowledge that an item was stolen.

One way to protect yourself from having someone sell you a bird, and then pretend like it was stolen, is to put everything in writing. That doesn't work if you're contracting with the person who stole the item and not the original owner, but it should certainly protect you from an original owner claiming you stole their bird when the exchange was actually legal.

[sassie]

*sigh* today has been SUCH a depressing day. People who own birds just dont get it really. I tried to explain things to a deputy here today, and he just dont "get it" or get what law could have/was broken!!!!

I am going to call a lawyer tomorrow - Im just having a really sad missing buddy day!! When I get depressed I eat, well - I ended up eating a WHOLE row of chips ahoy chocolate chip cookies before I even knew it.

[PowerBBS]

Originally Posted by sassie

...I ended up eating a WHOLE row of chips ahoy chocolate chip cookies before I even knew it.

Guilty as charged... ate the other row too.... :)

Keep your spirits up. It will work out for you as along as you stay on top of it.

[sassie]

Hahah! I couldnt eat another row -- at that time I got icky to much sweets sick to my tummy & passed out for the last what 3 hours??!?!?!

Im not going to give up.

[PyscoFalcon]

So sorry to hear it. What an awful thing. I would hate it if someone apperead at my door with poliice and said Merlin was stolen (they can still do so after all theses years)

Really hope your wounds heal soon and your room mate get's his money back.

[ROYJOY]

that really sucks!!