Protect your self when buying a bird from a person!

[sassie]

I just wanted to say, sometimes when dealing with people in buying there birds we as buyer's need to protect ourselves also!

I just got buddy for Christmas. His "rightful" owner's showed up at my house today with police. To inform me that buddy was stolen from there home like 2 days before I got him. . . . They had arrested the people whom originally stolen him & they gave my address out to get the bird back. So I was awoken today, with her & police telling me I was going to jail for receiving stolen property! UNLESS - I returned the bird then, which I ended up doing.

So, were out the money we "bought" the bird with. We were told its a civil matter with the people who stole the bird -- and although they are going to prison for theft, burglary & what ever I still can sue them.

I'm not quiet sure how to protect yourself when buying a bird from a stranger. But, obviously this isn't the 1st time its ever been done, just the 1st time to me!!

So, sadly to say buddy isn't here right now. Happy to say, hes where the woman was devastated with out him. I'm so happy, sad, mad - feel so violated

Scams are not just for the people selling the birds! Just beware :(

[SDavid]

Most unusual scenario for sure. So sorry you had to go through that. My emotions right now are as conflicted as yours are. Thanx for posting the story. How was the original owner? I mean, was she at least a bit understanding that you had no part in any wrong doing? Did she blame you at all?

Also, why did the person you bought the bird from want your address if they were selling stolen "property"? You'd think they would just want to get of what they stole and make their money.

[4HAND]

What a mess!I'm so sorry this happened to you Sassie.
Tena

[sassie]

Originally Posted by SDavid

Most unusual scenario for sure. So sorry you had to go through that. My emotions right now are as conflicted as yours are. Thanx for posting the story. How was the original owner? I mean, was she at least a bit understanding that you had no part in any wrong doing? Did she blame you at all?

Also, why did the person you bought the bird from want your address if they were selling stolen "property"? You'd think they would just want to get of what they stole and make their money.

No i don't think the original owner really blamed me at all. It was a really emotional time for her, she was upset & happy at the same time!
The person I bought it from didn't want My address - but if you look up peoples phone numbers online ect you can get there address & they had it or got it at the police department. They did want to ditch the bird - but when the police tell them if they can cough up the bird the sentence may be lighter or no charges pressed --- I don't know what they were told to be honest.

I was just told they stole this bird, this was the rightful owner -- and I had stolen property and could be charged with that if I didn't return it. Along with the rest was to be handled between the bird thieves & I.

Ive only personally heard of something like this happening once before. It was a "legit adoption" but after a couple weeks the ppl wanted there bird back. threat ed to take them to court if they didn't return it, filled a stolen report & the whole 9. The couple never got there money back for that bird, but lost it as well.

[sassie]

Originally Posted by 4HAND

What a mess!I'm so sorry this happened to you Sassie.
Tena

Ty, Im sorry it all has happened also! I am feeling sorry for myself, but then again I try very hard to look at it in the eye's of the woman that raised/loved this bird & had it ripped from her home. I know its killing my heart that buddy is gone right now & I had him less then a month!!! Imagine her heart ache, but joy when she found him.

Now Im just so up in the air. So many times Ive bought birds from "people", there's been people that has surrendered there birds to me *that could have been stolen* I mean, what do you do? How can you REALLY protect yourself from buying a stolen bird? Its really a common things now, bird thief's!!! Also now that someone has come in here, seen my lay out. How do I know Im safe & she doesn't hold a grudge & try to steal my birds? How do I know this all wasn't a ploy to get into my house to see -- plan on stealing from ME? Ok, Im examining this way to much ---- but how do we know for real?

[PowerBBS]

Call the local county/city district attorney on the matter and have fraud charges filed against those thieves and then inquire about possible "civil" charges you're considering to be filed against the police department itself for failing to enact their legal responsibilities to uphold the law, because they failed to arrest them on the charge in the first place - telling you to take care of it yourself in civil court. Fraud is not a civil matter but a felony with heavy fines and can even entail jail time.

Just so you know... there is no such thing as a civil matter (other than violating a court order) that can entail jail time. Also keep in mind the criminal charge of fraud will not necessarily result in you getting your money back. That part would be a civil suit, unless you used the fraud charge as a bargaining chip to negotiate a refund for "no/reduced charges".

In any case call the local district attorney and they'll issue an arrest warrant based on the fraud charge. From the sounds of it you have plenty of evidence.

[huntress]

So if you know who your roomate bought the bird from, press charges against them for fraud.Your roomate did pay money for the bird right?

[Courtzrocks]

What dirty bastards!!! People suck! Grrr I hope you sue them good for that!!! People are sicko's arent they.

I'm glad the original owner got him back but really, I would be furious that I was sold a stolen bird. I hope everything turns out the way is should.

[Tishrei]

Goodness, this is tragic.

When purchasing from a private party, there is always some risk, whatever it is we are purchasing for we would have no real way to determine if a bird, bike, or whatever is actually stolen property.

Sounds to me like the thieves were arrested and possibly some sort of plea was arranged. If a plea was arranged such as a lighter sentence if they returned the stolen property to the rightful owner, it's probably too late to have them arrested again for fraud. The police are not liable in an civil suit based on what is in the origanal post because according to the original post, the thieves are going to jail. If that's the case, the police did their job and upheld the law by making an arrest and now there is apparently going to be a trial and if convicted, they are going to jail.

I once read a case in the Legal Journal about a woman that purchased a car from a private seller. She paid cash. Turns out the car was stolen. The thief was caught but she was out a few thousand dollars and she never recovered her money.

As to the "legit" adoption, if it was done from a private party and there was some adoption papers involved, then the people would have no recourse for they adopted out their bird. If they simply turned the bird over, then it is one person's word against the other. If money was exchanged, that would go to show a court that the bird was purchased and not stolen so best bet is to not deal in cash for that is hard to prove. If a person can prove that they paid money and money was accepted, a contract has been established. That's exactly what we do when we go to the store and purchase something. The store can't turn around and claim that we stole it. We alk out the store with our receipt and the receipt is proof that we paid for the item, ownership has been transferred to the purchaser. Same thing in a private party sale.

Ducky, for instance, was simply left with me, well they asked me to keep him since they didn't want him. No paper work, no money trail, nothing. Now that it's been five years, they could never get him back if they chose and all of a sudden decided to report Ducky stolen. Too long of a time has elapsed. However, if they reported him stolen shortly after leaving him with me, I would be hard pressed to prove that they gave him to me as I do not have paper work.

In the case of adopting from a rescue organization, if one adopts a bird that they rescue was unaware that the bird was stolen, you would still have to relinquish the bird but the organization would be required to return the money for it is the organization's responsibility to adopt birds that are not stolen, not the adoptee's responsiblity to investigate potential birds' history as to whether they are stolen birds.

In any event, this whole thing is tragic and sad. I'm sad for you, happy for the owner especially if she loves this bird. Your best bet, if you want the money back is to sue but since you're not out the money since the bird was a gift, the person who purchased the bird is the one that would be the proper person to sue (unless it's your husband).

So very sorry that this happened.

[sassie]

the person that bought the bird for me was my roommate. So I do want him to get his money back!!

I'm sorry if Ive confused anyone in telling the story, I'm just so upset over it all.

The people who roommate bought the bird are in jail for B&E -- during the B&E they are in jail for now -- they stole buddy, a B&G, along with an Amazon. From what I know, we are the only ones that have turned there bird back in. I was told the owner of the B&G is taking it to court, and not giving back the bird at this time.

Our matter with the people that sold us the bird will be small claims - sorry not civil. They are being prosecuted for the original B&E --- We will be suing them *probably* Seeings they live almost 3 hours one way, it might be to much of a hassle for us. We will see --- God works in mysterious ways. Maybe the bird found us because no matter the money paid/transaction -- if the bird was stolen I couldn't morley keep it Id go insane!!!

When birds are surrendered here for help & whatnots. They have to fill out a surrender paper & drop off all vet records if any available. Still if that bird is stolen & traced back to us - I would have to return it --- its stolen property!