Poll-Would birds be happier?

[Joel]

Do you personally feel that pet birds would be healthier and happier UNCLIPPED (instead of clipped) - in a totally safe, temp. controlled, properly sized to species, indoor or outdoor avairy - with plenty of toys, avian playmates if do-able/desired (walk-in feature, if desired by keeper). A simple yes or no is what I am looking for. .... Thanks for your participation.


Edited on at 4:40pm to make sure there are no misunderstandings: Please read the posts below before voting , now that there are posts - just want to make sure everyone knows clearly what I am asking.... Thanks.

[Monica]

Well, you know... it DOES kind of depend on the bird... being that some don't like large spaces???

In most circumstances, I'd say yes! Tomi Girl, one of the female tiels here, is proving to be more and more human orientated than bird orientated (heck, she doesn't get along with any of the other birds here, including tiels!). Then Casey, my first tiel, enjoys hanging out with the other birds, or at least eating their food! But when it comes down to it, her best buddy and love is Noel, my cherry head! Then there's Charlie, who'd rather be with a human ANY day!

In short though, besides a few 'oddities', I can see that many birds are much happier in flight cages or aviaries, and with others of their own species. The budgies are in their own flight cage, and when they are let out, they normally stick together! The cockatiel family is less 'organized', and one is a total brat/bully, but other than that seem quite happy together. Of course, then again, there are plenty of birds who adopt humans or other birds as part of their flock and would be much happier being close to humans (i.e. Charlie, for ex) than elsewhere.

[Tiki]

Joel, I took the liberty of moving this poll to Bird Talk since it is about birds and will get more replies there. I also clarified the title to reflect what the nature of the poll is about.

[GreetingCardReligion]

Honestly, I think that a bird has the potential to be exceedingly happy in the situation you described but just as happy in a different situation.

I feel the same about horses who are given an expanse of free pasture to live verses a stalled/coralled horse who is given regular exercise through human interaction. Now, not all people have the time/energy/inclination to make sure the horse stays mentally stimulated and well excercise but those that do have horses just as happy as pasture horses, if not more so in many circumstances. I know this is a faulty parallel but its close,imo.

You arent asking if birds are better clipped/unclipped but it seems going more towards an aviary situation vs a more "pet" situation. I think birds really do enjoy human interaction and can benefit from the diverse and intellectually stimulating things we can teach them. Most animals I've ever encountered, mamal or bird, thoroughly enjoy a good challenge. They love to use their minds to work something out, to learn tricks to learn skills and I think that they really can benefit in a good "pet" household when their caretaker provides these sort of experiences for them.

So no, I do not think that a responsibly maintained aviary situation is better than a responsibly maintained indoor pet situation. In fact, I would go so far as to say that since we've brought them into captivity, we should bring them into our daily lives and give them /some/ benefit for being here with things that they wouldn't be able to experience and learn from in the wild, and puzzels and challenges and love that otherwise they wouldn't experience.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by Monica

"......... Of course, then again, there are plenty of birds who adopt humans or other birds as part of their flock and would be much happier being close to humans (i.e. Charlie, for ex) than elsewhere.

Monica.... I included in my post a "walk-in" feature, in my list of features, that this immaginary yet easily built flight/aviary would have (if desired etc.) - so they would in fact have human interaction.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by GreetingCardReligion

"........So no, I do not think that a responsibly maintained aviary situation is better than a responsibly maintained indoor pet situation. In fact, I would go so far as to say that since we've brought them into captivity, we should bring them into our daily lives and give them /some/ benefit for being here with things that they wouldn't be able to experience and learn from in the wild, and puzzels and challenges and love that otherwise they wouldn't experience.

You too seemed to have missed my "walk-in" feature which can mean "sit-in" for those so inclined. Heck, even install a hammock if ya like. So with that clarification for you, do we have a yes now instead of a no? If so, maybe your vote (if you have voted, can be fairly changed - same for anyone else that did not read the poll question closely enough). My a-fore-mentioned aviary/flight would include ALL the features/things I listed and can be indoor or outdoor (as already staed). ....

[GreetingCardReligion]

No Joel, a walk in feature does not change my mind in the slightest bit. If you want an expansive aviary, even indoors, it is not going to be something that can be incorporated into your household and daily life or living room. Just because you can wander out at whim to watch the birds in the aviary, and interact with them if they want to, does not even begin to touch on the level of interaction, stimulation, and bonding that comes with a bird being an integrated part of the home and the family.

I beleive that birds (well, individuals always make exceptions) really do benefit from being apart of a human family - since theyre in captivity anyway - and we might as well strive to give them a reason for being here and the interaction and love that so many birds thrive on in households.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by GreetingCardReligion

No Joel, a walk in feature does not change my mind in the slightest bit. If you want an expansive aviary, even indoors, it is not going to be something that can be incorporated into your household and daily life or living room. Just because you can wander out at whim to watch the birds in the aviary, and interact with them if they want to, does not even begin to touch on the level of interaction, stimulation, and bonding that comes with a bird being an integrated part of the home and the family.

I beleive that birds (well, individuals always make exceptions) really do benefit from being apart of a human family - since theyre in captivity anyway - and we might as well strive to give them a reason for being here and the interaction and love that so many birds thrive on in households.

I don't see the problem - so take your whole family into the walk-in/sit down type avairy so all can then interact with the bird(s). Why not build a 20'x20'x8' tall (approx. - depending on bird species) Lanai onto a sliding glass door or etc. and make it part of the house? "Where There is A Will, There is A Way" .......IMO.

Remember, my goal is to see the birds being as natural as can be and we adjust to them not them adjust to us.

[GreetingCardReligion]

Do you want answers to your poll Joel or are you just trying to argue and convert people? I don't see an aviary, despite how lovely and hammock inclusive, being anywhere near the interaction that a bird incorporated and integrated into a household and a family and daily living is.

It is two different choices, if they were the same choice then it wouldn't be an issue, wouldn't deserve a poll and wouldn't even be a question. They are not the same thing and while I think birds would be very happy in both situations, I do not think they would be happier in an aviary situation.

[Joel]

Originally Posted by GreetingCardReligion

Do you want answers to your poll Joel or are you just trying to argue and convert people? I don't see an aviary, despite how lovely and hammock inclusive, being anywhere near the interaction that a bird incorporated and integrated into a household and a family and daily living is.

It is two different choices, if they were the same choice then it wouldn't be an issue, wouldn't deserve a poll and wouldn't even be a question. They are not the same thing and while I think birds would be very happy in both situations, I do not think they would be happier in an aviary situation.

I'm trying to discuss an issue and make sure you see what I am talking about or meant by my poll question. You now sound like YOU are the one trying to start something? ..... Yes, I would love to convert people (always for the birds sake) if I could!

Just because YOU personally don't see something, doesn't mean someone else can't? I asked for yes and no answers in my poll but when someone states something that needs clarification or misreads something in my original question, sorry but I need to respond to that - whether asked or not.