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Very good article Emily! thank you for sharing it!
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"Wisdom is the reward for listening over one's lifetime"....
![]() www.thegreyroost.com My Angels waiting at the Rainbow Bridge ~~ ~~![]() Sampson Bell (CAG) Otis (TAG) Polly (OWA) |
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Interesting theory. But I think it's built on a very uncertain assumption. And that is that the captive parrot starts at the love/belonging stage. To put them there we would have to be 100% certain that the previous needs are in fact being fulfilled. Not just from our human point of view.
For instance, lets look at "safety." To us it seems that a cage is a safe and secure environment. So we would tend to assume that the bird feels this way as well. But, don't birds feel most secure in the ability to escape from danger or any threat? It's the only defense they've ever evolved. And I believe they can miss it because it is instinctual. If instinct tell them to do a behavior (any behavior) and they are denied it problems will and have developed. Ease of escape is the reason they can land and eat close to their predators. They know they can fly up and out of harms way. When they hear a strange noise, they take off immediately. Birds on our fingers do this as well. Now take a caged bird. With children running around, dogs, cats, etc. Kitchen fumes, loud noises, and many other disturbances in our homes. Aren't they in fact trapped and do they feel stressed because of it? They have to sit there and take all of it. Sure they may not be the same dangers as in the wild but your bird might want to leave just the same. Some get so stressed that they begin to self-mutilate. This is one case scenario of course but a realistic one I think. Even in the case of physiological needs. We are denying them the wearing down of their beaks and nails that they would get from foraging. Not to mention the exercise. So, by handing them food we are taking something away as well...mental stimulation and physical health. I know your aticle is subjective. I'm just bringing up some things that came to mind. It would be great if we could know if they are truly fulfilled in some aspect or another but I don't think we can. I think part of the fulfillment for parrots is working for what they have not just "having" it. Work for birds = happiness. Just like the birds in our backyard...always busy. I do though agree with the last part of your article about birds being independent. |
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I like it..
now, just to talk in the topic, I agree with freedom, and not Sdavid. Actually, everything SDavid outlined goes WITH and not AGAINST the pyramid. She's not saying they start there, but that they get stuck there for lack of any other level TO be in. Yes, they can move into the security, since as you outlined, there are issues with caged bird life that will stress out a bird. But, during the day (most kids go to school, dogs are let out, things settle out for 8 hours/day) they go back to the trying to fulfill the love/belonging... By doing this, they may be overpreening (they have noone else to preen during the lonesome hours) plucking, destroying toys, so on and so forth. And even all of the business of a normal household-that fulfills the needs that they have for flock-flocks of birds ARE loud, busy, banging, clanging is just the sounds THEIR flocks make. Not stressfull. The stress comes when we walk out the door, leaving them behind-in the wild, thats what other birds in a flock do to injured members.. they are left behind, as they would attract predation to the whole entity of the flock. More or less, your dead anyway. I seriously doubt many birds pluck/mutilate because of a busy house, I think they pluck because of lack of the love/belonging area of the pyramid that they are stuck in like a revolving door. Day in, day out, they are there, with no way to get out of it. I like that article, I want to print it out and hand it around!!!
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come visit me at http://www.toolady.com/www/home/swan...arrotlets.html now edited for use |
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Ultimately one has to ask whether any other species can successfully fulfill any aspect of the triangle for another, which, if you believe that it can't, makes having a captive bird immoral because we are knowingly depriving them of their fundamental right to self-actualization. Sometimes I wonder if the bond a bird feels for its owner is the same one that a captive human develops with, say, a kidnapper (Patty Hearst syndrome). It is simply the nature of all conscious/sapient beings to form bonds, and the owner provides the only choice. But, it wouldn't be the one the bird would choose if it were free and uncorrupted by human interference.
Just some late-night thoughts...I could be way off with this musing... |
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LyndaM, excellent points. I struggle with that myself and you put it into words very well.
Swanwillow, "She's not saying they start there, but that they get stuck there for lack of any other level TO be in." I do understand that but it is a "hierarchy" so to get there one has to "compleat" the other levels so to speak. Lets just say we place a bird at that point. To do this the other levels must be satisfied, right? Or the bird doesn't move up. I'm saying that I don't think we can be sure that they (captive birds) really get to that level (to get stuck there) because we can't verify that the lower levels are truly fulfilled for them to move on. How could we? From your post you think that fulfillment in the other levels can happen. I'm saying we don't know. "all of the business of a normal household-that fulfills the needs that they have for flock." To a point, as birds do chatter and show signs of happiness when the house is "alive." But I still don't know how you can be so sure that the fulfullment takes place. I take LyndaM's position on that issue-that we simply aren't certain....."Ultimately one has to ask whether any other species can successfully fulfill any aspect of the triangle for another." "I seriously doubt many birds pluck/mutilate because of a busy house,..." I never said "busy." To you, your house is just "busy" because you understand the origin and meaning of the noises. My point is that there are things in a normal house that can and do at times bother a bird and the bird can't get away from them if or when it want's to. Can our birds shut the TV off when they are tired of listening? Can they tell our kids or dogs to shut up so they can doze off? Can they say to you "easy on the cleaning product, it bothes my eyes"? Can they ask you "what's that noise coming from the other room it's really making me scared?" etc, etc. Or, can they simply go somewhere else? I've read many articles about some known causes of pucking (for certain caged birds). Some factors off the top of my head have been doors slamming, loud teenagers running up and down stairs, bad cage placement, shouting matches between people. A caged bird that is constantly being shaken-up or stressed by certain (mysterious to the bird) goings-on in the home has been known to have problems be it plucking or some other manifestation. It's not my opinion. I've read these articles. To me it's simply not a valid equation that "flock ruckus = human household noise." Not from the birds point of view IMO. And, I'm not saying that normal events in our house bother them "all of the time." BUT they can't get away from any of them if and when they want to. Add to that the events that surprise and scare them and you have a possibly stressed out bird. No matter how many times I take out the vaccum cleaner, it scares the heck out of my TAG. It should be normal to her by now but I'm sure she'd fly over to the other side of the room in a panic if she wasn't in her cage. Last edited by SDavid; 01-22-2008 at 11:27 PM. |
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Quote:
Another point would be that unless you have provided a mate that the bird accepts, it cannot ever move to even the second level because it's sexuality cannot be fulfilled by a human even if the bird is "bonded" to that human. I know that people believe that they are substitute mates for their birds, but isn't that as frustrating for the bird, anthropomorphically speaking, as living in a sexless marriage would be for us? "It's not my opinion. I've read these articles. To me it's simply not a valid equation that "flock ruckus = human household noise." Again, I agree with you SDAvid, that in our human arrogance, we often compare apples to oranges. (Not accusing anyone here of being arrogant! It's part of the human condition -- me included!). Last edited by LyndaM; 01-23-2008 at 12:31 AM. |
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I had a reply typed out, but UGH, off to the la-la land of disappearance. I'll write back later with something I think.
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come visit me at http://www.toolady.com/www/home/swan...arrotlets.html now edited for use |
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Swanwillow, is that an eclectus in your signature? It looks beautiful! Also, I see you are a parrotlet breeder -- do you breed lucidas? I have a wonderful green 10 month old pacific male for whom I might like a lucida female one day, not for breeding, just for companionship (and to fulfill the physiological aspect of the heirarchy
Last edited by LyndaM; 01-23-2008 at 02:07 AM. |
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