Molting...or plucker in the making?

[FeathersNFur8]

Originally Posted by Mike B

So back to my original question. Why don't we find ways to assist the hen through her hormones? Mike

Mike, I have read articles that pertain to what you are talking about. I have to admit, I have been a little skeptical when I read them, because they so differ from the normal advice given. But I like to keep an open mind and gather as much information as I can, so I can to make my own informed decision for my birds.

I agree we don't want to intentionally or unintentionally trigger a hormonal response. But it's a fact of their life, if you have a hen, you're going to be dealing with it someday. What are your experiences and what have you done to assist the hen?

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by FeathersNFur8

Mike, I have read articles that pertain to what you are talking about. I have to admit, I have been a little skeptical when I read them, because they so differ from the normal advice given. But I like to keep an open mind and gather as much information as I can, so I can to make my own informed decision for my birds.

I agree we don't want to intentionally or unintentionally trigger a hormonal response. But it's a fact of their life, if you have a hen, you're going to be dealing with it someday. What are your experiences and what have you done to assist the hen?

Hi Karen, The ones I suspect to be ladies haven't laid so I'm not sure about thier sex. All of mine though do have shredding material. Keep in mind all of mine are Macaws also. Although my flock is young they are of age except for one RF yes she is a F. She is beginning to show signs. With her I've upped her almond intake. She has toys w/ more rope on them NOT LONG PIECES. She also has a Jolly Ball that she can come, and go into as she pleases. They all have foraging toys, trees for food , and nuts. I don't make anything easy for them. If they want to move they have to expend some kind of energy. Except for Gonzo B&G none of them have full length perches. I put food, and water dishes at either end of the cage. One of the best forging toys is a coconut. I think all of this is why I don't have the issues. That being said my flock is young. The oldest being Lucky RF he's 13-15 somewhere in there. He is very hormonal for the lil girl RF. He is still very handable. Both of thier cages are within eight inches of eachother. So given all of that. It's either because they are young, or thier to pooped.

Mike

[Vega]

Update...

I took Gypsy to the vet today. Ironically there was another female Vos ekkie there--plucking in the same area. Although her owner said she's been doing it for about 6 months (Rosie is 15 years old-adopted through a rescue 6 mos ago).

Anywho the vet said the gram stain wasn't bad. He put her on an anti-fungal medication just to be sure there isn't a bacterial infection in her crop. He said that if she doesn't leave the area alone within the next 5 days to start her on the other medication that helps eleviate stress and to let him know how she's doing next week--either way.

Now, I forgot to ask as I was leaving which med is which. The girl gave them both to me--same dose, 2 times a day. So is the SMZ-TMP suspension the anti fungal...or the Fluconazole? I'm thinking it's the second one--anyone else know? I'll call the vet as soon as these stupid phones give me a chance to!

[Dayna]

Originally Posted by Vega

Update...

I took Gypsy to the vet today. Ironically there was another female Vos ekkie there--plucking in the same area. Although her owner said she's been doing it for about 6 months (Rosie is 15 years old-adopted through a rescue 6 mos ago).

Anywho the vet said the gram stain wasn't bad. He put her on an anti-fungal medication just to be sure there isn't a bacterial infection in her crop. He said that if she doesn't leave the area alone within the next 5 days to start her on the other medication that helps eleviate stress and to let him know how she's doing next week--either way.

Now, I forgot to ask as I was leaving which med is which. The girl gave them both to me--same dose, 2 times a day. So is the SMZ-TMP suspension the anti fungal...or the Fluconazole? I'm thinking it's the second one--anyone else know? I'll call the vet as soon as these stupid phones give me a chance to!

2nd one

[FeatherLover]

Please keep us updated.

[Cindy215]

It's not about how many hours of dark and just adding more. It's about following a natural daylight schedule mimicking what is going on in your "hemisphere" at every time of year. INCLUDING dawn and dusk not just instant dark or throwing a cover. AND a cover really doesnt work they still are aware of everything. Regardless of plucking or not.

The "correct" way (if you dont work and your schedule permits) is"

No artificial lights from about 3 on
She'll need to eat before dusk from about 2 on.
Around 4:30 (in my state) it's dusk.
My birds go right to their cage on their own to "roost", start beak grinding
At 4:45 I wheel them in the sleeping room for the last break of dusk
At 5 when it's dark I close the mini blinds and they stay there till dawn - 7am

In the morning you do the same thing in reverse. They have a sensor in the brain that regulates metabolism with light all day and all year.

Alternatively you can do dimmers and black out drapes but it's tricky.

I'm completely in favor of a vet visit. First of all they can compare labs to your previous ones. And yes, if something were wrong I'd never forgive myself and have had the exact same experience as you with a dog. (except my vet was seeing him and missed the rule-ins).

You didn't just start using an Ionizer air purifier did you? I know three birds who plucked overnight after introduction of one of those things.

[The Outlaw]

All I can tell you is how I stopped mine from plucking. She was a 3 year old Grand/RS hybrid and it worked. I had to change things, just as I described, from the first week of September through October. After that, it was fine. If someone else has another female ekkie that has another way, by all means please advise Vega. Each species is different. Comparing macaws to ekkies is like comparing eagles to ostriches. They couldn't be more different. Frankly, having had macaws, greys, amazons and ekkies, I would say they are much more like a cross between a grey and a zon: Very smart and very determined.

[Cindy215]

Originally Posted by Mike B

It happens when there isn't enough calcium in the body to produce a shell. Yes, the egg cracks, then causes the infection. If the bird is on a diet w/ calcium foods I.E. almonds, broccoli, and sometimes calcium supplements. The shell should be fine.

If the eggs are left w/ the hen till she tires of them there isn't a chronic egg laying problem.

So back to my original question. Why don't we find ways to assist the hen through her hormones?

Mike

Yes there are ways to assist and we should be doing them. Once the egg is layed it needs to be swapped with fakes or frozen and returned at room temp till they lose interest, I agree. For as long as it takes not some artificial timeline like 3 weeks I've read. But the planning actually needs to start WAY before you have a problem.

In a pellet eating bird the calcium needs to be regulated by an avian vet who knows about such things. The calcium is artificial and can be overdosed. There have been some studies lately that the full amount of calcium in pellets is actually too much in certain species. (Texas A&M for one)

In a non pellet eating bird, ime and per many vets, they need to be given Calciboost (imo the best) Calcivet in Europe. Dosing varies and again needs to be discussed with an avian vet. All year long. Normally it's twice a week in non-egg layers and during egg laying bouts can be from 3-5 times per week.

In a calcium emergency they give it by injection.

Giving high calcium and vitamin A foods are always good and you need to know which ones and watch the ones with oxalic acid like spinach, parsley and some other. They bind calcium. Greens need to be rotated to avoid too much of one thing all the time.

Last resort they DO give hormones but I am a firm believer that it's not necessary if you act early, give a strict natural daylight schedule including dusk and dawn, and follow the other recommendations, not stroking beaks, feet, back or butt, lowering proteins and vitamin e and avoiding all nesty behavior like cuddling in a shirt or behind a pillow etc.

Of course this may not have anything to do with alot of feather destructive behaviors or whatever is bothering this Ekkie, but is sound practice for all captive birds, ime.

Ways to Prevent Breeding Behaviors:
Ways To Prevent Breeding or Egg Laying
http://www.companionparrot.com/Sexual%20Behavior.htm

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Cindy215

Yes there are ways to assist and we should be doing them. Once the egg is layed it needs to be swapped with fakes or frozen and returned at room temp till they lose interest, I agree. For as long as it takes not some artificial timeline like 3 weeks I've read. But the planning actually needs to start WAY before you have a problem.

In a pellet eating bird the calcium needs to be regulated by an avian vet who knows about such things. The calcium is artificial and can be overdosed. There have been some studies lately that the full amount of calcium in pellets is actually too much in certain species. (Texas A&M for one)

In a non pellet eating bird, ime and per many vets, they need to be given Calciboost (imo the best) Calcivet in Europe. Dosing varies and again needs to be discussed with an avian vet. All year long. Normally it's twice a week in non-egg layers and during egg laying bouts can be from 3-5 times per week.

In a calcium emergency they give it by injection.

Giving high calcium and vitamin A foods are always good and you need to know which ones and watch the ones with oxalic acid like spinach, parsley and some other. They bind calcium. Greens need to be rotated to avoid too much of one thing all the time.

Last resort they DO give hormones but I am a firm believer that it's not necessary if you act early, give a strict natural daylight schedule including dusk and dawn, and follow the other recommendations, not stroking beaks, feet, back or butt, lowering proteins and vitamin e and avoiding all nesty behavior like cuddling in a shirt or behind a pillow etc.

Of course this may not have anything to do with alot of feather destructive behaviors or whatever is bothering this Ekkie, but is sound practice for all captive birds, ime.

Ways to Prevent Breeding Behaviors:
Ways To Prevent Breeding or Egg Laying
http://www.companionparrot.com/Sexual%20Behavior.htm

What are your views on Phosphorus combined w/ the Calcium.

Mike

[Vega]

Hey Dayna, thanks! I thought that was it, but it's been so long I wasn't positive.

Cindy, I read a while back that Ionizers are harmful, so i've been carefull to avoid them. I have a humidifier in the room with them that I clean out at LEAST 2 times a week (usually 3 or 4).

Unfortunately with my work schedule, if they went by dusk/dawn I'd never see them and they'd be confined to their cages.

I did take up Outlaws suggestions with more dark time--though not dark-dark, I leave one of the lamps off while they are in the living room with me. The other lamp I have on the 2nd level (3 level brightness, used to keep both on #3). Instead of petting her while she sits with me, I'm bringing a toy over for her to play with instead of our hand games (tickling under her wings, this little piggy with her toes, kisses on her beak, or "big hugs"). No more seed treats. I removed the shredding toys, but left the preening ones in. (is that ok? the preening toys are that course rope material) I didn't spray her this morning since we were leaving and it's sill chilly out...then I forgot to when I dropped her off.

Another question...is it ok to mix her meds in with her food?? Trying to towel her is exhausting for both of us, and she eats like a piggy, I was thinking of mixing it in with a small amount of her nightly "mush", then giving her the rest of her food once that's gone.