Definition of "proper socialization" and it's limits with fids

[SDavid]

You hear this term thrown around alot and I'm wondering what does it actually mean in terms of a wild animal (like a bird)? Is there an official definition or example of a properly socialized bird. If you wan't, share an example of how you think you've socialzed or modified a behavior of a bird to suit your home.

I'd say that my birds are "tame" but not "trained" in that I can handle them, pet them, scratch them, they call to me (and wife), wan't to be with us, etc. But, they don't roll over, or put a ball into a hoop, etc. All I ever did was show them love and consideration for what they are.

I never considered trying to set limits on their behavior or enforce household rules such as: "don't touch that piece of furniture," or "don't land on the couch," etc. Is that even possible with a wild animal? I just assumed it wasn't. I understand that a domesticated animal such as a dog understands the word "No" or understands when we are displeased with something it did. And, you CAN train a dog to stay out of a certain room. But it's known that talking loud or saying "No" loudly, and other methods of discipline that humans understand are interpreted differently by parrots.

Part of the definition of "socialization" is:

"To fit for companionship with others; to convert or adapt to the needs of society (in our case, the needs of our living rooms)..."

I understand that through use of "time outs" and other techniques like positive reinforcement and ignoring negative behavior we can (supposedly) modify their behavior to suit us. But if it's so true then why do so many rehome out of frustration.

So, the question becomes: To what EXTENT can we socialize them. Lets say, a macaw? Is there a limit since it's a wild animal? Is the pet industry leading us to expect too much and to blame ourselves (and each other) for not socializing properly if a wild animal acts like a wild animal and we can't handle it? And, the advertisements you see in the back of BirdTalk magazine for "lovable, well-socialized, great family pets"....is that misleading? All baby birds are lovable. If they sell you a baby how can they possibly have had enough time to socialize it? And the idea of them being family pets. How often is a parrot a "family pet." We all know the personalities of birds can change for the worse so why does it continue to come as a surprise for people so often when it happens?

And, how is socialization different for a bird than a tiger or chimpanzee? Trainers can socialize a tiger to an extent. But anyone who pays attention to the news knows a tiger can suddenly turn on, and kill it's long time trainer. None of these animals would ever be fully trusted. Should we expect birds to be, and if not, why don't the magazines, ads, web sites ever paint the compleat picture?

I mean, a common description for a large bird would be "if you want a larger, cuddly bird, you might wan't to look into a Greenwing." And that's it!!! No other information. Not exactly accurate or responsible. Is it any wonder shelters and sanctuaries can't keep up.

Ok....so any thoughts?

[JoT]

Originally Posted by SDavid

And, how is socialization different for a bird than a tiger or chimpanzee? Trainers can socialize a tiger to an extent. But anyone who pays attention to the news knows a tiger can suddenly turn on, and kill it's long time trainer. None of these animals would ever be fully trusted.

Hmmmmmmmm....................

Even humans have been known to loose control and suddenly turn on and kill their "trainers",loved ones or society. I guess you never know about any of us. Who can we fully trust?

[Salsa]

I am by no means a bird expert or behaviorist, but I have birds, dogs, cats, horses and various other animals as pets. I'm not claiming that to give me credence, but to say that I have noticed something that seems to be a common thread. That thread being the fact that they are all still wild at heart. Sure, through the generations that kind of starts to be bred out of them, but I don't think it ever goes away.

I think the pet industry in general does a fabulous job of blowing things out of proportion and making claims and promises that they have no business making. If there was more honesty out there about the general types of pets and then education that with any animal there is always a percentage of risk with owning them and so forth, maybe there wouldn't be so many pets looking for new homes.

"I personally have no doubt that parrots can be and are wonderful pets... IF"...

That "if" covers a lot of things just as it does with dogs and horses and other pets. The bottom line is that it doesn't matter how much training you do or spend money on, any animal has the potential to attack or respond if all the conditions are just right. Its not always your fault or theirs. Its nature.

I personally feel that if that were better understood along with the fact that animals in general (and very much parrots) are very intelligent and the next biggest issue is communication between them and us, things could go in a lot more positive direction on a regular basis.

I have trained horses and dogs for years and I know that one of the biggest things is establishing a communication between me and the animal that we both can understand. Once that is understood, the sky is usually the limit and I have found every animal eager to learn once they learned the "language" that we could both speak. I have noticed that with the birds too. I find that very few people teach that language to the humans or the pets and I have noticed that is where the problems all begin.

So I know this is a long reply and it is just my opinion, but I have said all of that to say that I think the pet industry does a bang up job of making false claims as well as only telling part truths which puts in jeopardy the lives of many pets and the owners. My own fids have absolutely loved the challenge of learning very detailed lessons once the "language" between us was established. They are making strides daily. I also think that the level to which any pet is trained is personal preference on the side of the owner (parent) but I have seen many pets bloom with the opportunity and challenge of learning new things.

[SDavid]

JoeT,

I'm saying that it's "acknowledged" that you can't socialize other wild animals. So why is it so common to hear that you can do it with birds -they are wild as well? But yes, I guess some humans can't be socialized either....lol

Salsa,

I pretty much see it eye-to-eye with you.

[Ashling]

You can socialize any animal, to a certain extent. Anything is possible.
Socializing means being with the bird and teaching it about the world it is going to live in.
It means talking to the bird, handling the bird, introducing it day-to-day things like tv, umbrellas, different kinds of people, children, other animals, household objects, travelling, being alone and schedules. Having a bird, or any animal, exposed to these kinds of things at an early age helps make for a well- adjusted and not fearful animal.
This is apposed to leaving a baby bird alone in a cage in a dark room until it is ready to be sold. Which is a horrible thought! I agree with you fully on showing them love and consideration for what they are. Teaching birds tricks like roll over and putting balls in hoops is good for challenging their minds and building trust/ relationships with the birdy.

Oh- and I don't condone the keeping of wild animals like tigers- this can be dangerous! LOL!

[LyndaM]

Originally Posted by Ashling

You can socialize any animal, to a certain extent. Anything is possible.
Socializing means being with the bird and teaching it about the world it is going to live in.
It means talking to the bird, handling the bird, introducing it day-to-day things like tv, umbrellas, different kinds of people, children, other animals, household objects, travelling, being alone and schedules. Having a bird, or any animal, exposed to these kinds of things at an early age helps make for a well- adjusted and not fearful animal.
This is apposed to leaving a baby bird alone in a cage in a dark room until it is ready to be sold. Which is a horrible thought! I agree with you fully on showing them love and consideration for what they are. Teaching birds tricks like roll over and putting balls in hoops is good for challenging their minds and building trust/ relationships with the birdy.

Oh- and I don't condone the keeping of wild animals like tigers- this can be dangerous! LOL!

Very well stated, Ashling!

[SDavid]

I agree. Ashling, that was very well put.

"It means talking to the bird, handling the bird, introducing it day-to-day things like tv, umbrellas, different kinds of people, children, other animals, household objects, travelling, being alone and schedules. Having a bird, or any animal, exposed to these kinds of things at an early age helps make for a well- adjusted and not fearful animal. "

That bears repeating. As good a definition as there could be and the way I myself put it into practice. Things like toweling, showers, etc.

And, I should add that socializing is NOT in any way trying to suppress what a bird naturally is (simply because you can't). I don't know if people understand this but it seems many think they can do this when they bring a large parrot into their home. I hear of way too many people thinking that you can "mold" the personality of a bird to an extent that leads to disappointment. For example, behaviors like one person bonding, biting, or vocalizing/screaming, protectiveness, jealousy, mess, wastefullness, etc. simply can't be avoided and one should be prepared to live with it.

Today as a matter of fact I was in a bird store local to me. There were two baby GW's. A man approached me and mentions that he's looking for a greenwing because he hears "they are gentle along with the hyacinths." I'm thinking yes that's true but....and, of course, there's no time to give the guy the full picture of what he'd be in for. Some people think they're buying a kitten based a few positive things they hear. Not to mention, when people voice concerns about biting or bonding or noise, alot of breeders or salespeople will just say "it's all in how you socialize them".....which is obviously misleading. Some less desirable characteristics need to be explained and accepted before one buys a bird.