9 year old Blue Fronted Amazon BITER! OUCH!

[Lonna]

Hi,

I recently acquired an unwanted Blue Fronted Amazon that is 9 years old and male. He has been a biter since I got him and I've tried several things and work with him several times a day to try to get him to step-up. He bites me and everyone else every chance he gets. I plan to stick it out and keep working with him, but if there are any suggestions out there ... HELP! I've been bitten on my hands, arms and face, and have learned to pick-up on the signs he's going to bite, but sometimes he's so sweet and you think, he won't bite this time ... WRONG. I've tried the stick for stepping up and he runs away and hides from it. I suspect the poor little guy was abused ... his name is Wizard and a wonderful talker and singer. He also seems captivated by my Umbrella Cockatoo baby (9 months old), so I don't think jealosy is an issue. I got him about 2 months ago and there's been little or no progress. I've had to towel him to get him out of the cage so I can clean it and give him fresh food or he bites the daylights out of me. HELP! I absolutely won't get rid of him because he's had enough trauma in his little life, so any experience anyone has that has worked, please let me know. I've got 3 books on parrots and get many conflicting ideas, so I thought this forum might be more helpful.

Thanks for your help!

Lonna

[TooLover]

I don't have any real advise for you; I have a male U2 who is 11 and also has behavioral problems. We did not find out until we got him home that he was cage bound for 2 years, swore at, and just plain neglected; the wife came forth with the info after I called her. He still bites everyone except me; he has bonded to me and I can do almost anything to him. However, he still bites me when the mood strikes him.
As far as the stick training, I had the same problem with my B&G. He didn't even know how to step up; the previous owner would chase him around the top of the cage coaxing him to come down. It took me quite a while to get him to trust me enough to step up.
The best advise I have seen is to sit next to the cage and read or watch tv. Don't pay any mind to him, just be near him. After a few days of this, sit next to the cage and talk quietly to him.
I wish I could be more help, however, I am not familiar with this species. Hopefully someone else will come along soon to help ya out!

[The Outlaw]

I think you need to consult with Joanie Doss. She's just the best and will be joining us here on BB in February. In the meantime, why not contact her on her website, http://parrothouse.com/jdoss/html.

She's a doll and extremely helpful. For the record, you have a "hot 3" Amazon parrot. They are the most difficult of the male Amazons to work with.The other two are the double yellow heads and the yellow nape males.

THE OUTLAW

[Chariclo]

Hello Lonna and welcome!

I don't have any experience with a real biter - but I am working with a 35 yr old male amazon who has had little or no human contact, so I can relate to your frustration. I have had Ramone since November - you can read about his adventure to me in the amazon section.

He never had to step up so the whole thing is new to him too. I have diligently been working with him, and he still will not step up - however I am able to touch his feet now- which is a HUGE accomplishment. Last night he actually set one foot on my hand - but just for a second.

I also consulted with Joanie Doss in regards to his nature. She is delightful and will surely give you some great insight. I would also urge you to check out this site http://www.amazonasociety.org/. I found many helpful people here that are very willing to help you with anything.

I commend you on your decision to give this bird a home. Please feel free to voice your concerns and ask questions here. We are in your corner!

A good read for inspiration - The Parrot Who Owns Me - Joanna Burger!

[sboggio]

We got an African Grey at 4 years old. It took me a year before I could pet her. My wife could pet right away. I could tell she liked me because she liked me to hold her, but she bit every chance she got. Over time she decided I could pet her. She still bites if I reach, before she is ready, when she is in her cage. I think it may be a reflex to strick to defend her nest.
If your bird was abused, I wouldn't blame it for taking time to drop its defenses. Hang in there.

[Skyebirdsmom]

This is a LONG post, but it very much worth reading and digesting. Something in here applies to every biting bird. This reply is 4 posts long!
When Birds Are Biting.............

by Valeri McFarlane


Please be aware that no one solution works for every bird, and solutions
usually apply to different situations: why the bird is biting, the
personality and breed of the bird biting, the environment at the time, and
other factors. One of the best defenses is to learn the cues, language and
personality of the pet bird.

Learn to look for the flashing eyes, the change in expression, the change
in feather posture, any particular sounds, and so on. This is not an
answer-all, but hopefully a helpful reference tool to be used in learning
to read birds and how to respond to correct the problem behaviour and work
towards the rewarding relationship that makes people enjoy living with
parrots.

Why do they bite?
- aggression (of course)
- excitement
- fear
- hunger / thirst
- playfulness
- restlessness (need to go potty or just change scene)
- sleepiness

Lovebirds often utter a little challenge before they bite, some birds growl
before they bite, some yelp, but whatever they do every bird signals in
some way before they bite, whatever the reason for the bite is. Some birds
react viciously to a finger pointing in their face, and again to that
finger or hand if it is offered for stepping up within too short a time of
the 'finger challenge' - this is excited aggression; the bird perceives a
challenge and fights back. Not all birds respond this way, but most smaller
birds do - lovebirds, cockatiels, smaller poicephalus, budgies and some
conures, for example.

(Continued in another post....)

[Skyebirdsmom]

(continued from previous post...)
Being careful when offering a head or neck scratch can help avoid some of
these bites, which usually happen because a bird's peripheral vision means
they really can't see beyond their beak, so their eyes almost literally
cross when a human finger comes directly in front of their face, and for
little birds it becomes pretty much a big, looming threat because they
cannot clearly see what it is directly from the front and being larger than
their beak or face.

Other aggressive bites include defensiveness of property (including an
owned person), manipulation of a person or situation, and the eternal child
within the bird that demands it always have its own way. These are harder
to combat, because it takes everyone involved in the situation,
participating to resolve it.

Alerting the parrot to the fact that its behaviour is not acceptable is
key as well, and how that is done will affect how well the bird responds
positively and modifies its behaviour. Laughing when a bird bites someone
else will automatically reinforce that behaviour, especially if it is the
bird's favourite person who is laughing, and even more so if it is the
bird's interpreted competition that is being bitten at the time.

Any time a bird bites an interpreted competitor - boyfriend, girlfriend,
etc. - the favourite person should do the scolding and correcting,
otherwise the competitor becomes even more of a sworn enemy. If a bird is
having a general biting problem with everyone, having the person it seems
most bonded to spend time working on the behaviour until it is controlled
better is often more successful than having everyone involved all at once.
Once the bird is better controlled in general, gradual 'reintroductions'
with everyone else in general can begin slowly and with careful attention
for biting signals so proper interaction can be re-established.

Aggressively cage-possessive birds need to have some kind of play stand
away from their cage, and a couple such areas are even better: this
expands the bird's territory and decreases its The more time these birds
spend out in the open, away from their cages, the less aggressive they will
be. A huge cage for a cage-dominant bird can actually increase aggression,
so in some cases very aggressive birds can be addressed by moving them into
a smaller cage if they are in a 'palatial' home.

'Excitement' bites can occur when a bird is on sensory overload - having
way too much fun, experiencing way too many people, or way too many
environmental stimuli catching its attention. Technically, the bird isn't
doing anything wrong, however the unpleasant behaviour still needs to be
stopped. Again, the key to this is recognizing signs and being aware of the
bird's limits. When birds are playing it's easy to go a bit too crazy, and
painful bites can result: when birds start getting too crazy during
playtimes, favourite 'beating up' toys can be a great way to let the bird
expend its playtime energy in a safer way than savaging and shredding
fingers and hands. When company is coming and a bird tends to get 'zoned'
or 'keyed up', having relaxing music play - gentle instrumental music is
more relaxing than voices, usually - and ensuring guests don't 'crowd' the
bird are helpful in maintaining a more even level of 'happy.'

When birds are traveling or visiting, having a favourite toy and favourite
treats to allow the bird to retreat into its carrier can help the bird calm
down before biting occurs.

Fear biting follows closely on the heels of aggression and excitement, and
again is much more easily avoided by recognizing the bird's signals.
Never, never force birds to step up for a stranger when they are unwilling
- even a vet can be bitten, which is why most vets towel birds: they're not
expecting to establish trust, they're expecting to put the bird through a
series of tormenting things to ensure it is healthy.

People expecting a friendly bird on first introduction need a gentle
reminder that parrots, regardless of their size, are not predators
therefore they are prey, and prey is going to instinctively distrust
aggressive new situations. We tend to be offended if birds don't instantly
feel at home with us, and that often causes us to rush things. Patience and
trust go hand in hand, as it takes immense patience to earn a bird's trust
in some circumstances, and it always takes some patience with even the
best-behaved bird meeting strangers.

Often fear-based biting that is not caught quickly enough becomes a habit,
whereby a bird feeling even slightly nervous will bite. High-strung birds,
like red-bellied parrots, conures, some cockatiels, scarlet macaws and
African greys, for example, can very easily fall into the pattern of
fear-biting the instant they get nervous.

One of the best ways to combat fear-biting, and help a bird work back down
from the habit of fear-biting, is to slow down and quiet down when handling
the bird especially between people. Speak softly and reassuringly, and
relax any 'forced visiting' until the bird regains more confidence.
Forcing a bird to share its by 'visiting' with others is almost always
counter-productive.

[Skyebirdsmom]

(continued from previous 2 posts....)

Birds are very social, but it is relationship-based, not just a set of
casual encounters. One way to get a bird to want to visit with someone is
for that someone to pay no attention to the bird, and focus attention on
the other people around - this is especially true of certain breeds, and
meeting new people. The bird almost wonders why this new person isn't
trying to talk to it and so it gets anxious to talk to this new person.
Cockatoos are hilarious when they're anxious to meet someone.

Hunger, thirst, restlessness and sleepiness bites are usually little nips
that don't cause much more than discomfort, but left unrecognized and
unheeded they can result in habitual biting of more painful strength. Most
birds need a break after twenty minutes of handling - and cockatoos SHOULD
have a break after twenty minutes of handling, only so much lap-time is
good for such mush- pots - so they can refresh themselves, have a bite to
eat or a little drink, certainly go to the bathroom in a more appropriate
place, get in some good ol' toy chewing, and even rest a while.

If a bird feels the need to do any of these things, and it's still
interacting with someone, often it will pinch and fuss. Once a bird starts
exhibiting this kind of behaviour, it should be returned to its cage as
quickly - but gently, the bird is not in trouble - as possible and
reassured that everything's fine, food and water and potty are coming.

Playfulness bites can happen in two ways: the bird is going into hyper mode
from so much playing fun and starts biting, much like the 'excitement'
bites; much worse and more dangerous are the bites resulting from the bird
playing with a toy, and some part of human anatomy coming between said bird
and toy. These bites can be damaging and very, very painful because the
bird is not intending to come into contact with something soft like a hand
or another bird, it is intending to attack and inflict damage or
destruction upon a toy, perch, branch etc.

These bites can also happen with jewelery, which is one reason why jewelery
is best removed before interacting with parrots. Plastic toy jewelery is
still not safe, as the bird can injure the wearer by trying to play with
the jewelery.

Being careful to avoid human physical contact when birds are playing with
objects helps to keep the mentality that humans are not to be bitten even
in fun. Wrestling and gentle beak-playing can be practiced carefully,
providing that such play stops before the bird becomes too hyper and
biting, but such games must still take care not to teach birds that biting
people is NOT fun. It is much easier to avoid picking up such habits in
the first place, than to try to unlearn them.

Breed-Specific Biting Patterns

It is important not to categorize a bird because of its breed, but it is
also important to be aware of common traits of a species and provide
latitude for a pet bird to exhibit these traits while getting acquainted
with the bird. Being aware that scarlet macaws tend to be less outgoing
than blue and gold macaws can help people to be more conscious of watching
for nervous reactions before they become bites.

Being aware that lovebirds tend to fight rather than to play can help avoid
nasty bites from well-meaning people who tried to use their own hands play
with a lovebird. Being aware that certain breeds of conures - the sun,
some jendays, and some of the other smaller conures - are more prone to
nervousness and fear- biting can help to increase awareness of possible
situations that can arouse such fear and nervousness.

Some reputations are well earned, and as such some birds require almost
formal respect, such as the amazon family who are notorious for
unpredictable biting. As one amazon lover once said, "My amazon is not
unpredictable - I always know when he's going to bite me!"

Amazons are famous for their pinning, flashing eyes and their fanning
tails: it is VITAL to learn which pins, flashes and fans mean "You really
are my very favourite person and we're just having SO much fun together!"
as opposed to "Take one more step and you're gonna get it."

Amazons are very easy to get wound up and over-excited, and careful
direction of their activity to words, songs, sounds, imitations and
echoing games can help to channel their creative energy into other things
than brutalizing, attacking and annihilating.

Providing ample toys to vent the natural chewing and aggression is
important for most birds, but especially for very active and aggressive
birds like amazons. Anyone who has seen paired amazons knows that to love
you is to bite, fight with, try to beat up and expect beatings in return
from you. Amazon pairs that do not fight, are probably not going to work
out. Seriously.

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, which is why it is
vital to take a breed's reputation into consideration when getting to know
a bird, but the bird still needs ample room to show its own individuality
before it is labeled with breed-generic traits.

Blue and gold macaws are generally known to be affable - meaning they enjoy
socializing, being the center of attention and interacting with people. My
blue and gold macaw used to hide whenever people came over, and now he's
adventurous enough to say 'Hello' to some of the repeat company, but he
still beats it to the top of his cage where he's safe from the socialites
below.

My moluccan cockatoo actually prefers this, as she enjoys dominating all
company, parties, dinners and visits whether it's one person or twenty
people. Some moluccan cockatoos are very reserved around visitors and new
people, but my moluccan is completely unaware of this.

Just because a breed is prone to a certain trait, does not mean that trait
should be accepted with a shrug: it should be watched for, properly
redirected and carefully controlled when it does happen. Part of training
includes responding to unacceptable behaviour. Part of responding involves
knowing the bird and the breed tendencies, as well as knowing the source
of the biting.

Some breeds of birds need to be ignored when they assert themselves by
biting, and others need correction and positive redirection immediately:
two primary breeds that really should not be ignored are African greys and
amazons; they can be like cobras when they bite, biting repeatedly and
stubbornly to the point of injury; conures and macaws can be gnaw-biters,
which is often painful and frustrating, but also is often intended to test
and draw a reaction and when none is drawn the biting eases off and stops
- depending on the situation.

Macaws are famous for test-bites when meeting new people or testing new
situations: they will lunge without landing a bite to see if someone
flinches; once someone flinches, they're done for and that macaw will
always lunge for them and actually bite once the lunging itself stops
getting the flinch. Eventually, when the biting does not result in
flinching, the macaw will get bored and stop, but that is often many bites
later.

Sometimes abused macaws will lunge and bite because they are afraid of
being hurt and just want to get it over with, and those bites are intended
to hurt because the bird feels the only control it will ever have is being
the first to hurt, as it expects to get hurt anyway.

Abused and neglected birds will also bite to drive people away because
either they have been hurt and want no more of it, or because they have no
experience with affection and physical interaction so they fear it.

These are not typical biting scenarios but they are definitely becoming
more common. There is no easy key to resolving this kind of biting, or
even avoiding it because to work with the bird will ultimately mean
challenging its physical comfort levels to demonstrate to it that it is
safe and no harm is intended in spite of its previous experience.

Simply being patient, very, very patient can lessen the fear. It is always
advisable to give any new bird time to adapt to a new home and new flock
before attempting physical interaction, but especially in the case of
previously owned birds.

Establishing passive interaction after the bird has stopped demonstrating
obvious fear and nerves in its new home is the first and most important
step to helping a new bird settle.

Letting the bird set the pace at which it becomes acquainted with its new
environment and flock will also go a long way to establishing a basis for
trust. Pushing a new bird to become social and 'step up' can add stress and
fear if the bird isn't ready to meet its new public yet.

Establishing a relationship means both parties have a say in what goes on,
whether it is the party with skin and clothing or the party with skin and
feathers. Showing a bird that its opinion and feelings have value, is a
large step in earning that bird's trust, love and respect.

Continued next post....

[Skyebirdsmom]

(continued from previous 3 posts....)
Everyone who owns a parrot will, at one time or another or several others,
be bitten or at least nipped. Some parrots, like macaws communicate with
their beaks a great deal, and the gentle beaking of a pet parrot can be one
of the sweetest, cutest things, not to be mistaken with a bite.

A parrot-bite is not of the same nature as a dog-bite, painful though it
may be; biting is a communication form with parrots, usually the last
resort when all other efforts to communicate a message of displeasure have
gone un-heeded.

The best thing is to know the signs of a bite coming and prevent the bite
in the first place, but not overreacting - which is the very hardest thing
when a parrot is attempting to remove body flesh without any anesthetic -
is one of the most significant things in changing the behaviour.

Copyright © October 2002
Valeri McFarlane
milo_mcfarlane@yahoo.ca
Behavioural, Introductory, Relational and Developmental Services
www.B-I-R-D-S.ca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I got this off another site I belong to,
Linda & HRC~

[Chariclo]

:eusa_clap
Thank you Skyebirdsmom for a great post! I appreciate you sharing with us here!