Hybrids - Cross Breeding

[dyeman]

I was wondering what the opinion of the board was on Hybrids or Cross Breeding parrot sub species?

I think this weakens the gene pool of species that are all either endangered or threatened in most situations.

The examples I have seen, such as Sun and Jenday breeding seems to produce a less hardy baby as well.

Cockatiels and Eclectus seem to maybe be the worst, I am not sure their are pure gene pools left among these.

So what's your opinion? Just curious.

Scott

[sweetie&meli]

Hey alot of people have diffrent opinions ont his subject so here i go :P

A color mutation is much diffrent from a hybrid bird....hybrids are not pure bred ...hybrids are created by crossing two species of parrots together. The parent stock , if pure to start with, remains pure and can be repaired later with a bird of its own species...thus no harm is ever done to the gene pool..But, once a hybrid offspring is produced, this bird can never be pure and can never produce pure offspring in the futer. Therefor, the act of breeding hybrids should not be done ..

Color mutations are still pure birds. They occur in nature, but often do not survive if the new color is too vibrant and they are easily spotted by predators, Color mutations in captivity are perpetuated by breeding like-colored birds to like-colored birds(of two birds that carry the color gene). The resultant offspring will often be the color that is desired. After many generations a color mutation can be magnafied or combined with other colors if they are available in that species:)

http://www.critterbreeders.com/lb&g.htm (mutations)

http://www.exotictropicals.com/encyc...ion/hybrid.htm (hybrids)



birdtalk
april 2005
vol.23
num:4

[The Outlaw]

I own a hybrid RS/Grand female Ekkie, so I know of what you speak. In defense of the Ekkie breeders, its my understanding that the male subspecies are so similar that even good breeders frequently confuse them. Hence, its extremely difficult to find a true pure blood ekkie, with the possible exception of the SI's. I knew nothing about birds when I purchased my girl. She was my very first bird and she's still a beautiful and amazing creature. I agree, however, with the general consensus that hybridizing is probably a bad idea. I wouldn't set up pairs in that fashion, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't find them exceptionally pretty, at least the first generation ones. Second and third gens tend to lose their rich clear colors, so they don't really touch me in the same way.

In a perfect world, we'd leave well enough alone, but of course its an imperfect world. The best way to discourage hybridizing is to simply stop buying hybrid babies. Sooner or later, the breeders would get tired of giving away their baby birds and it would likely stop. However, the world is full of opportunists and folks that don't know the problems associated with those beautiful birds. As usual, its all about what the public wants and is willing to pay. I imagine the shelters will be full of overgrown, out of control hybirds in about 10 years. We shall see.

THE OUTLAW

[Tiki]

Dyeman, I remember a very lengthy discussion on hybrids a couple months ago--if you go to the search function in the toolbar and type in "hybrid" it should come up. I'd do it but I am about to leave for work now.

[dyeman]

Originally Posted by sweetie&meli

Hey alot of people have diffrent opinions ont his subject so here i go :P

A color mutation is much diffrent from a hybrid bird....hybrids are not pure bred ...hybrids are created by crossing two species of parrots together. The parent stock , if pure to start with, remains pure and can be repaired later with a bird of its own species...thus no harm is ever done to the gene pool..But, once a hybrid offspring is produced, this bird can never be pure and can never produce pure offspring in the futer. Therefor, the act of breeding hybrids should not be done ..

Color mutations are still pure birds. They occur in nature, but often do not survive if the new color is too vibrant and they are easily spotted by predators, Color mutations in captivity are perpetuated by breeding like-colored birds to like-colored birds(of two birds that carry the color gene). The resultant offspring will often be the color that is desired. After many generations a color mutation can be magnafied or combined with other colors if they are available in that species:)

http://www.critterbreeders.com/lb&g.htm (mutations)

http://www.exotictropicals.com/encyc...ion/hybrid.htm (hybrids)



birdtalk
april 2005
vol.23
num:4

I certainly agree with you on the difference between hybrids and color mutations, but thats why I gave cockatiels as an example. These are only color mutations, but I read an article in a breeding handbook that said there are so many color mutations of cockatiels and interbreeding that they are not sure there are going to be any "pure" cockatiels left before long.

[dyeman]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

I own a hybrid RS/Grand female Ekkie, so I know of what you speak. In defense of the Ekkie breeders, its my understanding that the male subspecies are so similar that even good breeders frequently confuse them. Hence, its extremely difficult to find a true pure blood ekkie, with the possible exception of the SI's. I knew nothing about birds when I purchased my girl. She was my very first bird and she's still a beautiful and amazing creature. I agree, however, with the general consensus that hybridizing is probably a bad idea. I wouldn't set up pairs in that fashion, but I'd be a liar if I said I didn't find them exceptionally pretty, at least the first generation ones. Second and third gens tend to lose their rich clear colors, so they don't really touch me in the same way.

In a perfect world, we'd leave well enough alone, but of course its an imperfect world. The best way to discourage hybridizing is to simply stop buying hybrid babies. Sooner or later, the breeders would get tired of giving away their baby birds and it would likely stop. However, the world is full of opportunists and folks that don't know the problems associated with those beautiful birds. As usual, its all about what the public wants and is willing to pay. I imagine the shelters will be full of overgrown, out of control hybirds in about 10 years. We shall see.

THE OUTLAW

I have heard that a great deal of the Ekkie interbreeding actually took place in the wild to the point that some ornithologists are even questioning whether some of the subspecies are legit. Bad example I guess.
I do love my Ozzie, whatever he truly is. He is helping me type this in fact.

[sweetie&meli]

We did have a disscussion on this not to long ago with a memeber here wanting to breed his sunconure with his greencheek :P i geusee he changed his mind...i hope anyway to me mixing breeds is playing god in wich case that is not our job :( but yeah who knows if there will ever be pure cockatiels ...humm i wonder ..I work in a pet store we just got in a yellow sided conure :) i wonder if hes a mutation or a hybrid ...im leaning twards a mutation only because he looks alot like our green cheek max but just more vibrant in color ...lolol sometimes i think max is jealour by the way he looks at him ..but as i tell max no one beats his ''bad ass'' attidude:)

[dyeman]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Dyeman, I remember a very lengthy discussion on hybrids a couple months ago--if you go to the search function in the toolbar and type in "hybrid" it should come up. I'd do it but I am about to leave for work now.

Thanks for the tip, I would recommend anyone reading this thread to search Hybrids and read the thread with 55 posts. Very informative and lively discussion.

[The Outlaw]

Scott:

I contributed a lot to that particular thread so I know what you mean. I was a great discussion, well thought out, with intelligent exchanges, just the kind of thread I love to read.

There is a member here who is very smart and knows a great deal about hybrids, for she has many pairs. She doesn't sell her babies, but has lots of information about the first and second generation hybrids. I found her input fascinating and hope she'll jump in.

THE OUTLAW

[yehudasf]

BS"D

In that Judaism forbids crossbreeding, even to the extent that we cannot plant wheat & rye in the same fields, I would never knowingly create a hybrid. However, once they exist, I will do everything possible to see that they have a happy, joyous, & fulfilled life. Some hybrids are far more vigourous than either of the parent species, but this is most common in the plant kingdom, or in animals wherein both parent species have suffered from excess line breeding or inbreeding. In that event, the introduction of new genetic material greatly reduces the amount of reinforced negative alleles in the offspring, giving it a more robust nature. In my travel in Cental & South America, I have seen many naturally occuring hybrids, therefore I find a bit of a quandry in taking an extremely hard line on hybrids between members of Ara, however I know of no naturally occurance of an Ara x Anodorhynchus, and regard such as an abominable disservice to the already severly endangered Hyacinth macaw. In many cases hybridising seems to come down to humans wanting to make a quick buck by offering a "fashion bird", to members of the show-off public, that nobody else has. In such instances I have nothing but contempt for the perpetrator of such.