Dyes in Pet Food

[The Outlaw]

WEll, for the record, I have switched to feeding the eclectus diet to ALL of my birds and have for many years now. Friends who have stopped in can vouch for the size and temperaments of my fids. They are all in top shape, in good weight and very healthy. I have tried just about every pellet and my birds all agree on one thing: they suck. Not one will eat them. I have 10 birds: 4 BGs, 1 Ekkie, 1 Amazon, 1 Quaker, 1 Severe Macaw and 2 greys.

THE OUTLAW

[Skyebirdsmom]

Thanks Scott...I've periodically told people in general about buying Certified Organic foods for their birds mostly because of all the artificial ingredients INCLUDING colors in the average pellets. I actually don't even believe in feeding pellets but do understand some people are not home for most of the day and have to keep something available. But most of it falls on deaf ears or people will say "I've been feeding it for years and years and my birds are healthy" But the thing is, they don't KNOW for sure they are healthy. So anyway, thanks for the post!
Linda & HRC~
Avian nutrition is kinda my thing and so I especially appreciate your post on this matter. :eusa_clap

[The Outlaw]

I always knew that Ekkies had special needs, but ALL birds need a more natural diet. We have shortcutted because of OUR needs, not theirs. The idea of feeding fortified diets and not providing full spectrum lighting, for example, is a waste of time. The birds can't uptake the vitamins unless they have the benefits of the UV rays necessary to assimilate it. Its certainly more work to go fresh, absolutely, but I've yet to see tumors from a natural diet. And, just for the record, the two birds that arrived at MY door the MOST plucked had been on Harrison's pellets for at least 5 years. Both were seen at LEAST 4 times a year for plucking problems by one of the top 10 avian vets in the country (Zantop) and were much loved, not neglected in any way. Both improved dramatically within 3 months of being on a natural diet. Cleo, the CAG, completely refeathered and had been in great feather until I recently was called away to help with a dying friend and his family. She has learned to use feather pulling like nail biting to relieve stress. Still, she's growing new ones in now.

It always makes me nervous when we have the pellet discussions because I know that folks think that pellets are their "insurance". That couldn't be further from the truth. The only advantage I see in pellets is that they are more stable as far as going bad during an eight hour period. However, like everything else, once a bird has visited the pellet dish, they too become contaminated. I've seen folks leave the SAME pellets in a bird's dish for days until they were finally consumed. It never occured to them how contaminated they actually were. Again, a false sense of security.

I've seen what commercially prepared dog foods have done to many household pets. Itchy and balding dogs with allergies are abundant. One of the reasons that lamb is recommended to feed sensitive dogs is because its slaughtered so early that it doesn't have time to get loaded up with additives that ultimately pass on to the eater.

Anyway, this is a discussion that goes on and on. Everyone will use their own best judgement to feed whatever they feel is the best choice for their companions. I'm a scratch cook for the humans here, so cooking for the dog and the birds is just second nature to me. I have a freezer that is pretty much stocked bottom to top with prepared bird and dog foods. I have reserved on shelf for the humans here. Your bird, your call: my bird, my call.

THE OUTLAW

[dyeman]

Originally Posted by ParrotletLover

Exactly, Nancy. I never said what you feed your birds wasn't your call. I'm sure a natural diet is far better than a commercially prepared diet, and I have never said it wasn't, but right now I don't have hours each day to prepare a diet.

I am very busy and spend all of my free time playing with Lily. There is no way I can bring her into the kitchen while I prepare her food due to the fact Mango is down here. She always gets hyper when she sees him.

Until this summer and until I get more experience, I will have to continue feeding her fresh pellets, fruits, vegetables and seeds. I do know my birds are healthy - my avian veterinarian who has been treating birds for over 21 years, has run tests on Lily for all aspects of her health - including complete physical exams - and she is quite healthy now. That is considering she came from a pet store eating seeds and green three times a week. (That is the only questionable thing about the pet store - they feed seeds.)

I am planning on being homeschooled for high school to allow me more time with family, friends, and birds. I will try a more natural diet then - hopefully I will have experience in preparing fresh diets, making the foods, ect. So until now this is the most convienent, healthiest way for me to feed my birds.

Blake, a couple ideas to consider as an alternative to the pellets: I feed my birds at home Hagen Tropimix, which is a mix of dried fruit, nuts, hulled seed and a small amount of their undyed pellets. I also feed them Beak Appetit, which is cooked and there are 6 different flavors to keep the fids from getting bored with it. There is even a microwave version. Nothing but good stuff in these. I cook for my birds whenever I can and certainly give them fresh fruit and veggies at least once a day, but I am also under time constraints sometimes and this gives me a viable alternative. I haven't found a bird yet that has refused either of these.

One other point on the dye issue. The most horrible thing about the dangers here as I understand them is that this is very much like an otherwise healthy person developing cancer from exposure to chemicals. Until the tumors or organ damage presents itself, the fid will seem very healthy to you and your vet. I would be particularly concerned about your Lilly because of her size. But from your posts Blake, I know you love your birds and take excellent care of them. I would just suggest you research the issue on your own and don't take anyone's word for it, even your vet. This really is fairly new research, although the issue has been out there for some time. My vet worked at a Kaytee research facility and he said their research showed that for pellets anyway, the color really made no difference for the birds. However, in market studies, consumers would buy the colors over the naturally colored pellets every time and that is why they color the pellets.

Just something to think about.

Scott

[dyeman]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

I always knew that Ekkies had special needs, but ALL birds need a more natural diet. We have shortcutted because of OUR needs, not theirs. The idea of feeding fortified diets and not providing full spectrum lighting, for example, is a waste of time. The birds can't uptake the vitamins unless they have the benefits of the UV rays necessary to assimilate it. Its certainly more work to go fresh, absolutely, but I've yet to see tumors from a natural diet. And, just for the record, the two birds that arrived at MY door the MOST plucked had been on Harrison's pellets for at least 5 years. Both were seen at LEAST 4 times a year for plucking problems by one of the top 10 avian vets in the country (Zantop) and were much loved, not neglected in any way. Both improved dramatically within 3 months of being on a natural diet. Cleo, the CAG, completely refeathered and had been in great feather until I recently was called away to help with a dying friend and his family. She has learned to use feather pulling like nail biting to relieve stress. Still, she's growing new ones in now.

It always makes me nervous when we have the pellet discussions because I know that folks think that pellets are their "insurance". That couldn't be further from the truth. The only advantage I see in pellets is that they are more stable as far as going bad during an eight hour period. However, like everything else, once a bird has visited the pellet dish, they too become contaminated. I've seen folks leave the SAME pellets in a bird's dish for days until they were finally consumed. It never occured to them how contaminated they actually were. Again, a false sense of security.

I've seen what commercially prepared dog foods have done to many household pets. Itchy and balding dogs with allergies are abundant. One of the reasons that lamb is recommended to feed sensitive dogs is because its slaughtered so early that it doesn't have time to get loaded up with additives that ultimately pass on to the eater.

Anyway, this is a discussion that goes on and on. Everyone will use their own best judgement to feed whatever they feel is the best choice for their companions. I'm a scratch cook for the humans here, so cooking for the dog and the birds is just second nature to me. I have a freezer that is pretty much stocked bottom to top with prepared bird and dog foods. I have reserved on shelf for the humans here. Your bird, your call: my bird, my call.

THE OUTLAW

Nancy, I am sure you have probably done this before and since I am new, just haven't seen it. However, maybe you could post a typical day of food for your fids, or lead me to the post where you have done this before?

I am particularly interested in what you feed the Ekkie. As I posted in the expert section, I am have a little trouble with one and think an improved diet might help, although the little guy is doing much better since I brought him home. The daily showers are really improving his feathers.

My wife sometimes cooks caseroles and similar things on the weekend that we can then heat up during the week when we have less time. I am thinking that would also be a good idea for the fids.

Scott

[The Outlaw]

Scott:

I started using the suggestions of Carolyn Swicegood (www.landofvos.com) 5 years ago and it was only when I got OFF track that I had any problems with any birds here. Granted, you don't know about hormonal plucking until your birds mature, but up until this past spring I NEVER had a bird pull a feather unless it was time to grow a new one.

My ekkie started pulling feathers late last spring after I put her on Pretty Bird Eclectus formula. What a disaster! Never again. The problem is that once they start pulling feathers, it becomes "fun". They will actually play with them. I battled with her all last summer ultimately putting her outside in a cage for at least 8 hours a day and completely going back to the recommended diet prescribed by Carolyn. She fully re-feathered.

In late November, I noticed a few feathers on the bottom of the cage. They were bright blue. I then checked her hatchdate and sure enough, we had a fully mature female ekkie. She was hatched in 2000. Breeding season seems to start in November and run through spring here in the states. She is now refeathering again. I had to restrict her seed to about a half cup a week and control her lighting. I can't even let her see a possible nest sight,for when she sees one, she gets all hormonal again.

Essentially, on a typical day the meals go something like this:

Birdie bread for breakfast (tons of recipes for that everywhere) with added corn and parsley. Parsley has lots of good vitamins and my birds love it.
I sometimes make a spoon bread kind of thing for them using a cornbread mix or cornmeal and add a jar of natural baby fruit or else I puree whatever fresh fruit I have on hand. Today, it was a Bosc pear. I add about 3 fresh eggs with their shells to the cornmeal mix. I use water or fruit juice to moisten the mixture. Keep stirring until it becomes a thick pudding. Allow it to cool, and feed warm. My birds love warm mushy stuff.

Lunch is usually a whole grain bread and nut spread. I use a lot of peanut butter, but have also used hazel nut spread. I then add a few slices of banana (I call this the Elvis special) and top the sandwich with another slice and more of the spread. I quarter one sandwich and divide it among 4 macaws. I also do the same with a second sandwich, but divide it into 6 pieces for the remaining birds. My Ekkie is one of those.

Otherwise, I feed chopped veggies and a few pieces of fruit (apples, pears, oranges, kiwi, grapes in season, berries (I don't like to serve strawberries unless I grown them due to heavy insecticide use). I sometimes put these things on skewers with a leaf of romaine lettuce or kale between the veggies and fruits. My birds like to forage.

Dinner is usually some form of what we are eating. However, I always have many, many bags of Lissa's sink mix on hand. This usually consists of cooked rice (brown is preferred, but I also us Basmati) soaked 15 bean soup mix (discard the flavor pack) one large bag of frozen mixed veggies, one bag of cranberries, one bag of frozen chopped collards or chopped broccoli and a bag of either chopped walnuts or almonds.

This is the base for a complete dinner. To this, when I serve it to the birds, I add whatever protein we are eating. I usually have chicken, pork, beef or fish at any evening meal, but when we don't, I simply boil a few eggs and chop them, shell and all and add them to the base mix. I also grind up 3 oyster calcium pellets with a mortar and pestal and mix them in too.

You can omit the rice and instead substitute cooked pasta, your choice, but don't cook that until you are ready to serve the dinner. It gets too mushy and my birds prefer al dente with both pasta and soaked beans.

Otherwise, my birds enjoy spaghetti dinner, complete with garlic bread, chicken and mashed potatoes or sweet potatoes, and whatever veggies I'm cooking that evening. I don't offer a lot of beef or pork, but I do offer them. I usually boil chicken wings or bake them and freeze them in vacuum sealed bags to add to evening meals for the birds. Its very handy. Also, the birds love chicken bones and rib bones from beef. Big treat.

I make it a point to offer some form of either sweet potatoes, carrots, yellow squash, butternut squash or pumkin almost every single day. In fact, eggs, sweet potatoes and green leafy veggies are among the MOST nutritious of nature's bounty.

The secret to feeding a good diet is cooking lots of stuff when you do, having a good vacuum sealer and a freezer. Its easy to grab a bag of prepared stuff and thaw it. Add a little protein from your dinner table and you're on your way.

Save leftover veggies and small portions of meats. They are always a good thing to add to birdie breads.

Again, check out the Land of Vos site. Its probably the best on the internet for nutritional information. And, if that's not good enough, we have Carolyn Swicegood as our very own expert in the Ask the Experts section right here on Birdboard. Just another service we provide.

THE OUTLAW

I

[pbyeerts]

I've always thought the problem with colored pellets and other parrot food is that the color primarily comes from fruit juice, and hence contains a lot of sugar. Since we know sugar=yeast in parrots, it is to be avoided in all of its forms.

I use the Zupreem Natural pellets and my macaw LOVES them. Pamela

[Willow]

I have found this very helpful.
http://parrothouse.com/pamelaclark/f...companion.html
7 Layer salad is a godsend to me! My birds get it every morning.
They get s warm meal in the evening.

[dyeman]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

Scott:

I started using the suggestions of Carolyn Swicegood (www.landofvos.com) 5 years ago and it was only when I got OFF track that I had any problems with any birds here. Granted, you don't know about hormonal plucking until your birds mature, but up until this past spring I NEVER had a bird pull a feather unless it was time to grow a new one.

My ekkie started pulling feathers late last spring after I put her on Pretty Bird Eclectus formula. What a disaster! Never again. The problem is that once they start pulling feathers, it becomes "fun". They will actually play with them. I battled with her all last summer ultimately putting her outside in a cage for at least 8 hours a day and completely going back to the recommended diet prescribed by Carolyn. She fully re-feathered.

In late November, I noticed a few feathers on the bottom of the cage. They were bright blue. I then checked her hatchdate and sure enough, we had a fully mature female ekkie. She was hatched in 2000. Breeding season seems to start in November and run through spring here in the states. She is now refeathering again. I had to restrict her seed to about a half cup a week and control her lighting. I can't even let her see a possible nest sight,for when she sees one, she gets all hormonal again.

Essentially, on a typical day the meals go something like this:

Birdie bread for breakfast (tons of recipes for that everywhere) with added corn and parsley. Parsley has lots of good vitamins and my birds love it.
I sometimes make a spoon bread kind of thing for them using a cornbread mix or cornmeal and add a jar of natural baby fruit or else I puree whatever fresh fruit I have on hand. Today, it was a Bosc pear. I add about 3 fresh eggs with their shells to the cornmeal mix. I use water or fruit juice to moisten the mixture. Keep stirring until it becomes a thick pudding. Allow it to cool, and feed warm. My birds love warm mushy stuff.

Lunch is usually a whole grain bread and nut spread. I use a lot of peanut butter, but have also used hazel nut spread. I then add a few slices of banana (I call this the Elvis special) and top the sandwich with another slice and more of the spread. I quarter one sandwich and divide it among 4 macaws. I also do the same with a second sandwich, but divide it into 6 pieces for the remaining birds. My Ekkie is one of those.

Otherwise, I feed chopped veggies and a few pieces of fruit (apples, pears, oranges, kiwi, grapes in season, berries (I don't like to serve strawberries unless I grown them due to heavy insecticide use). I sometimes put these things on skewers with a leaf of romaine lettuce or kale between the veggies and fruits. My birds like to forage.

Dinner is usually some form of what we are eating. However, I always have many, many bags of Lissa's sink mix on hand. This usually consists of cooked rice (brown is preferred, but I also us Basmati) soaked 15 bean soup mix (discard the flavor pack) one large bag of frozen mixed veggies, one bag of cranberries, one bag of frozen chopped collards or chopped broccoli and a bag of either chopped walnuts or almonds.

This is the base for a complete dinner. To this, when I serve it to the birds, I add whatever protein we are eating. I usually have chicken, pork, beef or fish at any evening meal, but when we don't, I simply boil a few eggs and chop them, shell and all and add them to the base mix. I also grind up 3 oyster calcium pellets with a mortar and pestal and mix them in too.

You can omit the rice and instead substitute cooked pasta, your choice, but don't cook that until you are ready to serve the dinner. It gets too mushy and my birds prefer al dente with both pasta and soaked beans.

Otherwise, my birds enjoy spaghetti dinner, complete with garlic bread, chicken and mashed potatoes or sweet potatoes, and whatever veggies I'm cooking that evening. I don't offer a lot of beef or pork, but I do offer them. I usually boil chicken wings or bake them and freeze them in vacuum sealed bags to add to evening meals for the birds. Its very handy. Also, the birds love chicken bones and rib bones from beef. Big treat.

I make it a point to offer some form of either sweet potatoes, carrots, yellow squash, butternut squash or pumkin almost every single day. In fact, eggs, sweet potatoes and green leafy veggies are among the MOST nutritious of nature's bounty.

The secret to feeding a good diet is cooking lots of stuff when you do, having a good vacuum sealer and a freezer. Its easy to grab a bag of prepared stuff and thaw it. Add a little protein from your dinner table and you're on your way.

Save leftover veggies and small portions of meats. They are always a good thing to add to birdie breads.

Again, check out the Land of Vos site. Its probably the best on the internet for nutritional information. And, if that's not good enough, we have Carolyn Swicegood as our very own expert in the Ask the Experts section right here on Birdboard. Just another service we provide.

THE OUTLAW

I

Thanks very much Nancy, I personally find this very helpful. We try to cook ahead alot and I really needed some suggestions for the birds. We do feed them alot of what we each for supper each night as I think birds get emotional security out of eating with their flock, human or otherwise. I will spend some time on Land of Vos. Thats where I swiped the Mark Twain quote. It was so cool I couldn't resist. I think its amazing that the human relationship with Parrots is so old that we have such interesting quotes in literature from some of the great thinkers of our time.

Oh well, rambling now. Thanks again, Nancy.

Scott

[The Outlaw]

You are surely welcome. My motto is: Prevent illness, build a better bird.

THE OUTLAW