For the Parronts of Critters and Monkeys also.....

[Ginich]

If you got your CHIRPS and SQUAWKS e-newsletter, you already had a "heads up" about this. If not, I need to take a survey of all my online friends and acquaintences to make a business decision.

How many of you also have alternative exotic pets such as Primates (all kinds of pet monkeys, Capuchin, Javas, Squirrel, Vervet, Spider, Green Guenon, Gibbons, Diana , Snow macaques, lemurs, tamarins, marmoset, baboons, chimpanzees, orangutans) and exotic pet mammals such as Sugar Gliders, Ferrets, Bunnies, Ratties, Hedgehogs, Chinchillas, Guinea Pigs and others?

A few of my regular customers told me that they have been giving BIRDIEBREAD to their other pets also-and a few of my customers who never sent me pictures of their fids, revealed that they have monkeys who love BIRDIEBREAD!

I have done some research and there aren't a lot of healthy, nutritious, organic critter and primate treats on the market so those indulgent pet parents have been buying parrot treats for their furrbabies. So I need your help in deciding how much effort and money to put into this new line. Please tell me if you also have Small animal Critters or Primates and offer your thoughts! I put up a new page on my website about this also.

[Ginich]

Let's try asking this again- I really need some input and comments here. In addition to your fids, have you ever owned any of the above.or know someone that does......so far, I've only been able to find some pretzel type treats and yogurt cherrios but really they are for birds also. I relisted my EBAY auction today because it was bought by the pet parent of a Tamarin and Marmoset. Who else owns Critter and monkey furrbabies???

[Kiahanna]

That looks like a capuchin in those pictures....

They really should be kept in family groups.

I would NEVER recommend owning any type of primate or monkey as a pet. They dont make good pets and if anyone ever needs to know why they just have to tune into Monkey World on Animal Planet. I would say that most likely the reason you can't find much in the way of treats for these guys is they are just not meant to be pets - and a good many of them like lemurs, gibbons, and marmosets are critically endangered. Let's not go for the fashion statement here or romanticize this to encourage yet more misguided people to adopt what starts off as a cute capuchin or marmoset but turns into an unmanageable bunch of hormone and neurosis because they are not kept properly in their family groups where they need to be.

A good link on this : Fact and Fiction: Monkeys and Apes as Pets | The Humane Society of the United States

[Halo]

They are cute.... but I was under the impression that they weren't really "pet" type animals, although I do see scams for them on CL every once in a while. Not sure why anyone would want to keep a monkey as a pet and I'm guessing since they are in zoos you'd have to have a special license to keep them?

[Ginich]

Originally Posted by Kiahanna

I would say that most likely the reason you can't find much in the way of treats for these guys is they are just not meant to be pets - and a good many of them like lemurs, gibbons, and marmosets are critically endangered.

I am not promoting pet primate ownership. There are people who should not own Cockatoos, Macaws or Amazons either because they don't understand what they are getting into plus they are expensive to own and properly care for. You wouldn't believe how many of them end up in the FWCAS Rescue The Florida West Coast Avian Society, Inc. needing rehab before they can be rehomed! We have 2 male Yellow Nape Amazons and a male B&G Macaw right now!

That said, primates are regulated and licensed. There was just an Exotic Pet Conference in Arkansas this month on new laws and regulations governing the ownership of exotic pets and it was attended by 400 people! (I did not attend but the monkey in the picture's pet parents did.) BTW, that monkey does live with several other monkeys. Capuchin monkeys and other primates are not a cheap investment-they start at about $4,000-$6,000 plus all the stuff, food, etc. and special exotic pet vets that they also need. Like some parrots, some of them are being bred privately because they are endangered in the wild and losing their habitat. I do appreciate you posting the link, though, because primate babies are very cute and people should really think about what they are getting into before adopting or buying one, just like a M2 or U2. I don't own any of the above but I love knowing people who do and care for and indulge their needs properly! BTW, Capuchins are also being trained as special-needs partners to assist physically disabled people.

I believe there aren't enough pet primates for the major pet food companies to accomodate their diet by manufacturing special products for them. There are very few critter specific healthy treats available for ratties or bunnies either because they are lower on the totem pole than dogs, cats, birds or fish. However, since I am not Purina or Zupreem, I might be able to provide a healthy, nutritious, fun treat for this nitche market, if I can find enough pet primate and exotic small animal owners who might be interested.

[Kiahanna]

Originally Posted by Ginich

[b] Like some parrots, some of them are being bred privately because they are endangered in the wild and losing their habitat.

To stop you there, no privately bred animal that is on the endangered species list unless the individual has close ties to zoological associations would be able to contribute to the breeding programs set up for many species. The reason for this is that their blood lines need to be heavily monitored and it must be assured that the animals are for all intents and purposes pure bred. This is why you are seeing so much trouble with tigers that are privately owned - the owners can not take care of them once they get too big and the zoos will refuse to take them as they are most likely hibrids of different strains of tiger species and there is no way to ensure that their backgrounds are truthful. Just saying this in case someone gets the misguided assumption that they are helping the species by buying one.

Originally Posted by Ginich

I believe there aren't enough pet primates for the major pet food companies to accomodate their diet by manufacturing special products for them.

You will find that there are companies that do this, but they deal strictly with the zoos and other conservation agencies who keep these types of animals. The reason behind this is not that there are not enough people that own them (ofc comparatively not as much as dogs or cats) but because they do not want to encourage ownership by making it easier for them to own them. For instance - they need a varied diet of monkey pellets (obtained by companies dealing with zoos ect) fruit, vegetables, fiber ect ect. Now if a company were to take the nutritional requirements of these species and manufacture them the way they do dog or cat food and make it available to the general public well then an owner would just have to chuck the food in with no thought at all. These animals are not on par with many animals kept as pets. They are highly social, intelligent animals and as such dont do well as pets. They require a great deal more care then that of many animals kept as pets as well - why do you think zoo keepers in charge of taking care of them have to go to college for two years in order to learn about their proper care? It stands to reason that the average person just buying one would not have equal knowledge to this and I think its highly generalising comparing primates to birds as their required care is vastly different. A bird can, and very often will, be very happy with a bonded owner and/or a couple of other people and birds in its' 'flock'. The Capuchin for example is very different. They need a solid nuclear group - remember these guys when left alone will form a group with the parents and several previous years offspring. These bonds run very deep and last for a decade or more (in the case of females they are never separated from their mother and remain in the family group with their mother for the rest of their lives). When someone buys one of these, the baby is taken away from the mother as young as 3-4 months in order to make the most of the 'cute baby' phase. For an animal this intelligent it causes huge amounts of stress and can even lead to the death of the baby.

A bit preachy but the danger of posting pictures of that, however cute, are huge without also outlining the compete irresponsibility of owning one of these animals - not to mention the morality of trying to develop a business based on it...

[Ginich]

Kiahanna, Are you in the Zoo business in England? Perhaps our Wildlife and Conservation laws governing pet primates and endangered species are somewhat different in the United States.

There are obviously people who do already own these animals and are looking for alternatives to what is currently available. I would imagine that I would attract a lot more critters like rodents or ferrets that monkeys.

This is NOT a moral decision-I'm not buying or selling the animal; just trying to feed a pet primate or critter a nutritious treat. In fact, you have given me a new idea to contact the small zoos and rescues to see if they would have an interest as an enrichment or foraging treat. I am not looking to get into a debate on this. If you wish to continue this aspect of the discussion, please PM me privately. I wish to stay on topic with the poll.

[Kiahanna]

Actually, no. I went through an Animal Management degree program where i lived in New York before moving to England, I am actually American so I am well versed on the laws governing this topic.

-Just because it's allowed doesn't mean it should be done.

[Halo]

I just wanted to respond and say that no animal should be purchased just because it's cute and there are animals of every type that "shouldn't be owned by people who know nothing about them" but it happens every day. And I agree with Kiahanna that some animals do better taken out of their natural habitat then others.

And I do know how many birds end up in rescues... 8 out of my 10 were rescues that I took in and I'm not naive enough to think that they are the only ones out there needing help.

I only looked at the post because it mentioned hedgies, which I own.

[xafsmom]

Monkeys are adorable ...in the way that small children raised by someone else, doing something cute as you pass them on the street are adorable. Not that I'm against children ...I keep one locked in my basement to do menial work!

/whistles innocently