Dangers of Pelleted diet?

[dyeman]

I saw a thread concerning liver damage in Cockatiels. Is this a common problem for all parrots on pellet only diets? My parrots are fed a large variety of many foods, but I was interested since my vet as well as most I have talked to promote 60-80% pelleted diets.

Maybe there is an old thread on this I have missed, but I would like to educate my customers and freinds if this is the case. I have over the last year read many books on birds and their care and have not seen this problem mentioned.

Maybe this is peculiar to the smaller birds?

Scott

[Monica]

From my understanding, a diet with more than 50% pellets is bad, mainly for the smaller birds. Pellets usually have a lot of calcium and other "good" stuff, and in the case of birds, too much of the 'good' stuff can be deadly in the long run. I don't know everything that is put into pellets as I don't feed pellets, but a diet with a max of 50% pellets, with the rest being treats, seeds, and mainly fresh foods, then it shouldn't be much of a problem.

[lcbrink]

What I've learned from the vets @ Cornell Animal Hospital:

1) They are seeing the disease primarily in Cockatiels.
2) Early symptoms are frequent, watery droppings with almost no urea and a dramatic increase of water consumption (Upwards of 1/4 to 1/2 cup of water a day).
3) The only treatment available is Allopurinol, and if that doesn't work Allopurinol with Colchicine.
4) The vets try to wean the 'tiel off both medicines if possible, but if uric acid levels go up when the dosage is lessened its expected the bird will be on the medicine for its life.
5) If the Colchicine & Allopurinol have no effect, there is no other treatment currently available.
6) Early detection is imperative. The later the diagnosis, the greater the damage and the less chance the treatment will work.
7) They don't know why pellet diets have such a strong correlation with the disease (IOW they don't know the cause).

And what I've learned with a bird that has the disease since June '04:
1) Both medicines are suspensions that are made to order, good for a month, and must be refrigerated.
2) Both medicines cost me $20/mo total.
3) Squeaky is expected to be on the medicine for the rest of its life.
4) Allopurinol can cause liver damage.
5) Monthly visits are expected, where they draw blood for uric acid level tests. That test @ Cornell costs $7.
6) The vets haven't told me what the life expectency of a bird is once its diagnosed but they did say that they have had bird on the treatment for "years".

I have another vet appointment this coming Tuesday. If anyone has any questions they'd like me to ask the vet post them here and I'll post the responses.

[carriesb]

I've heard about this also and since I have a tiel and a budgie I worry alot about this. My vet said to just not feed all pellets and he says he usually sees it when a bird has been on a seed only diet for a long time and then pellets are added this for some reason brings on the damage. I know that's not always the case though it can happen to ones that have been on pellets for a while. I was wondering though i've heard it's from to much calcium also so should they not have cuttlebones then? I was just at the vet today also and wish I would of thought of asking that.

[Takoda]

All pellet diets are bad. I haven't heard anything bad yet (i could be mistaken) about a bird fed a well balanced diet of pellets, fruits, veggies, grain, and a bit of seed.

I think the main issue with pellets and kidneys is the protein level. I read a study on psittacine nutrition that had cockatiels at an optimum on 12% protein. But most pellets are at least 14%.

My vet advocates a 60-75% pellet diet.... but I sort of disagree. I feed a 60% max pellet diet (it varies from 40% up, but never over 60%) and supplement the rest with all the other stuff. I have read from many different nutritionists that if you do not feed at least 70% pellets, you need to feed the breeder formula which contains more protein and fat. I think that's baloney too, my birds get hardboiled eggs and beans on occassion, that makes up for it. Again, refer to the statement about parrot kidneys.

You have to do your own research and figure out what YOU want to do. I try to provide the pellets because the birds do get rounded nutrition (or what we think rounded nutrition for companion parrots is right now) and can't pick out one certain food over another. However, fresh and dehydrated foods do provide something more natural, something stimulating, and my birds tend to eat more of something if they feel they are lacking it.

[danforth3]

A pellet only diet is dangerous for any naturally seed eating bird (cockatiels, parakeets, canaries, conures, lovebirds, parrotlets, etc.) A varied diet is recommended as well as seeds and pellets. All my fids get pellets, just not all pellets. I ran into health issues with my lutino cockatiel (she was about 8 months old) which is when I founds out from the vet at the University of PA that an all pellet diet is bad for any companion bird.

Mine get a variety of foods daily and are all in good health.

My vet is not totally sold, but admits that my birds are in good health, fit and at a good weight (which my tiel was not when she started having problems--she was gaining weight on the pellets). He is doing some research on the issue now, and has started to recommend less pellets in their diet since I gave him my research on the issue.

I did a lot of research after I met with the vet at the University of PA (of course it was a Sunday and no avian vet to be found except there) and they gave me a ton of data, all of which was substantiated when I dug further.

[Lisa B]

Originally Posted by lcbrink

What I've learned from the vets @ Cornell Animal Hospital:

1) They are seeing the disease primarily in Cockatiels.
2) Early symptoms are frequent, watery droppings with almost no urea and a dramatic increase of water consumption (Upwards of 1/4 to 1/2 cup of water a day).
3) The only treatment available is Allopurinol, and if that doesn't work Allopurinol with Colchicine.
4) The vets try to wean the 'tiel off both medicines if possible, but if uric acid levels go up when the dosage is lessened its expected the bird will be on the medicine for its life.
5) If the Colchicine & Allopurinol have no effect, there is no other treatment currently available.
6) Early detection is imperative. The later the diagnosis, the greater the damage and the less chance the treatment will work.
7) They don't know why pellet diets have such a strong correlation with the disease (IOW they don't know the cause).

And what I've learned with a bird that has the disease since June '04:
1) Both medicines are suspensions that are made to order, good for a month, and must be refrigerated.
2) Both medicines cost me $20/mo total.
3) Squeaky is expected to be on the medicine for the rest of its life.
4) Allopurinol can cause liver damage.
5) Monthly visits are expected, where they draw blood for uric acid level tests. That test @ Cornell costs $7.
6) The vets haven't told me what the life expectency of a bird is once its diagnosed but they did say that they have had bird on the treatment for "years".

I have another vet appointment this coming Tuesday. If anyone has any questions they'd like me to ask the vet post them here and I'll post the responses.

thank you for sharing this advise.good luck with your upcoming appointment.

[Lisa B]

Originally Posted by danforth3

I met with the vet at the University of PA (of course it was a Sunday and no avian vet to be found except there) and they gave me a ton of data, all of which was substantiated when I dug further.

Cathy..who did you see? i will be seeing Rosenthal with my gang this summer.

[indybirds]

I am having a bit of a hard time getting Lingo interested in veggies. He has eaten a little carrot here and there but not much. I also feed him Cheerios, peanuts, millet, waffles, bread, and whatever fruit he'll take from me.

Should I also buy him a bit of seed to eat, besides millet?

[danforth3]

Lisa I don't recall who it was I saw that day.

My research shows that pellets do provide good nutrition, but have too much protein and other vitamins for small seed eating birds. In small quantities pellets are good for all birds, but seeding eating birds need the seed for good balance. The pellets seem to lack something in the carb family that the seed eaters need.

I've had birds (granted only budgies) most of my life and they never had pellets (pellets weren't around when my last one died about 15 years ago) and they lived long lives around 15 years on an unfortified seed diet--back then they did not provide fotification.

My seed eaters (budges and cockatiels) get a small amount of pellets each day and the amount of seed that they eat daily. My ratio is 3 tablespoon of seeds for the cockatiels with 2 teaspoons of pellets. My budges get about 5 tablespoon of seeds to 1 teaspoon of pellets. The pellets are overlayed on top of the seeds.

I also offer fresh foods as well as dried foods for all my birds. The dried foods (Just Veggies) are mixed in with the pellets and seeds and provide good nutrients.

Some of the new research is showing an alarming rise in yeast infections among companion birds. They are now trying to determine if the pellets are the cause.

A good diet, in my opinion, is a balance of seeds, pellets, and fresh and dried foods.