I didnt know people actually kept real birds in those decorative bird cages!

[ksuamy20]

How can he fit through that little door!

[SDavid]

"Maybe Im just wierd thinking thats strange and not the nicest idea, poor bird."

Absolutely not weird.

This person doesn't see their bird as any different than a floral arrangement in their living room. Is it lack of education, common sense? Or, what I suspect, just a lack of actually giving a rats ass about the well being of a living thing? The same person that will smirk at you when you try to educate them. Mira Tweti's movie can't come soon enough.

[amanda143]

You do realize that even though Mira Tweti owns parrot's herself, she wants to make sure than the practice is outlawed. While I agree with you that education is the key, taking parrots away from people just because some are ignorant is not the way to go.

[angelicarboreals]

I pray that someone with a little more sense when it comes to birdkeeping comes along and rehomes that poor eclectus. I am appalled.

[NotEnoughTime]

Originally Posted by amanda143

taking parrots away from people just because some are ignorant is not the way to go.

I have to agree with this statement...

I do a lot of work with dogs - and it would be a very interesting political issue if someone were to propose:

"Because of dog owners who are not responsible all dog ownership is no longer allowed."

There are a large number of dog owners who do not, or cannot, take care of their animals. We end up with agressive and poorly nourished dogs.

I would be willing to bet (a pretty large sum) that the shear number of dog owners who mistreat their dogs is *much* larger than the absolute number of bird owners who mistreat their birds.

But... Of course... it is up to us to inform and work with the public so that people who want to become bird owners are informed of the responsibility that such ownership entails. I note that many in this forum indicate that the ownership role is reversed - they do not own their birds - rather the birds own them.

As a bird owner I have felt that it is part of my duty to let people know of the care and responsibility involved in bird ownership. I visit classrooms and my workplace with my bird and I get many questions about bird ownership.

I know that when I visit an elementary school classroom many students want to get a "Budgie" (Budgerigar). It is an exciting opportunity to talk to the elementary school students about the care of an animal and the responsiblity that such care entails. My first Budgerigar lived 12 years - and I always had to plan and care for him whenever I did something...

Usually I encourage young people to adopt a dwarf hamster (who's lifetime is about 3 years) rather than a long-lived animal so that they can learn responsiblity... And the pain of seeing a loved one passing on...

Sooooo... Some people will always have a lack of responsiblity when it comes to animals - be it a bird, hamster, dog or other animal. My (very strong) feeling is that we should be "out there" educating people about the responsibility of bird ownership, or pet ownership in general. Especially if we have a strong love for our animals.

[SDavid]

For the record, I don't recall Mira Tweti ever advocating taking people's birds away.

"I would be willing to bet (a pretty large sum) that the shear number of dog owners who mistreat their dogs is *much* larger than the absolute number of bird owners who mistreat their birds."

Are you taking into consideration how many households have dogs as opposed to households that have parrots as pets? 63 percent of households have a dog, equal to about 70 million. Other survey's put it at 78 million. There are somewhere between 10 million to 17 million birds kept as pets in the United States.

In which case your analogy wouldn't prove any point unless you had percentages. Such as what percent of pet dogs are mistreated and what percent of pet parrots are mistreated. To further complicate the issue, when discussing parrots the term "mistreat" is a subjective one because there is much we don't yet understand about how to properly care for parrots in the first place. Not to mention that there is the ethical issue of captive wildlife (parrots) as pets as opposed to dogs that are not wild. It can be argued that any bird in a cage is a mistreated one. Our birds exist in the wild. They may be tame but we have not genetically changed them. They are the wildlife of another country that we have taken. But with dogs, we have created all of the species we keep and they don't (and many couldn't) exist in the wild. They are dependant on us as we were on them at one point in our history and still are to some extent.

Do you also take into account that the companionship of dogs and man is dated to 13,000 years BC. And today they are still very sucessfull pets. Larger parrots as pets has been popular for ony two decades. In that time we've managed to do alot of damage it seems. From driving most of them to near extinction (consult CITES) all the way to filling parrot shelters and sanctuaries to capacity.

With all of the dogs kept as pets throughout history and their success as pets I find it understandable (not excusable of course) that there would be many mistreated dogs. With parrots, I feel it's disproportionate. The damage we'ver done seems to not be justified by their pet potential or "success rate."

[NotEnoughTime]

I am certainly not stating percentages - since I have never found any facts or figures on this issue. But the sheer numbers indicate that the magnitude of the problem is huge... No matter what species we are talking about...

I believe that parallel arguements to your statements could me made for the canine species:

One can argue that a dog that is kept "tied up" all day is a mistreated one. Similar to your statement that any "bird in a cage" is mistreated.

One could also argue that a captively born "green cheek" who thinks her food comes in a dish could not exist in the wild as well. I certainly don't think mine would stand a chance.

I have friends with wolves and wolf crosses that certainly could not exist in the wild as well.

Larger parrots have been with man for many years. There some indication that the domestication of parrots took many years ago. In Egypt queen Meroe presented 200 parrots (and caged birds) to Alexander for instance. I can't see how it can be argued that keeping birds is a "new" or even "decades old" thing... People have kept birds for many generations.

To me all life is precious and should be respected... And I feel education is one way to "get the word out" about the respect our pets need.

[Monica]

Parrots may have been kept for thousands of generations as pets, however I doubt that many actually tried breeding them since it's just as easy to capture them and have them as pets vs having to figure out how to breed two wild caught birds in captivity, birds who may refuse to eat, let alone breed. Actually breeding and raising parrots as pets is a relatively new idea (although certainly older than my time!), otherwise I'm sure parrots would have been domesticated *AGES* ago! The sad thing of it is, is that no matter how much you try and educate the public, only those who are willing to learn, willing to listen, are those who will do what they can for the better of their pets. Otherwise, you are talking to a blank wall. Been there, done that. More than once.

You both have valid points, but in general I gotta agree with SDavid more here.

[NotEnoughTime]

Originally Posted by Monica

The sad thing of it is, is that no matter how much you try and educate the public, only those who are willing to learn, willing to listen, are those who will do what they can for the better of their pets. Otherwise, you are talking to a blank wall. Been there, done that. More than once.

Too true... And it is very sad for any animal (bird or otherwise) that is in that type of environment.

One can say that despite the differences in opinion, in general we all love our birds and care for them in the best way we know how...

I know that over the years my opinions and attitude has changed as I've learned and read more... Hopefully we can reach those that we can and help educate them...

[KimM]

Is she in Clermont, Fl ? If so, that's 20 mins from me.