Can someone explain something for me?

[Sorechia]

WARNING: These subjects are very emotional. If this post needs to be deleted fine but I would like to know these things since I see the discussions on this board all the time. If you are going to be rude in your responses please don't respond. I believe these subjects need to be TALKED about and discussed without people getting mad or acting "holier than thou" about it.


I have had birds for many years. My mom has had birds most of her life. We have never changed anything in either of our houses as far as teflon, non-stick, air fresheners, perfume, scented body wash, candles, plug-ins etc.

Why is all this stuff bad. I understand EXTREMES of things so I don't need the parrot police to tell me the "facts". How is it that after 20 to 25 years NONE of this stuff has affected our birds? I even had a kitchen fire with my bird in the kitchen (she was fine) we have painted, we have done all the things you are not "supposed" to do. My green cheek even lived in a house for 7 years with someone who smoked in the same room as the bird! (I told him not to do it but his smoking was more important than me or the bird, we are no longer married) So how is it that this stuff is all bad for the birds but mine and my moms have been fine?

There is no need for a lecture on how we are supposed to be taking care of the birds etc. There are a ton of posts here on that. I want an honest discussion about the "facts"
To me the "research" on some of these things is subjective. I can not believe that my family has just been lucky for the last 20+ years when it comes to these things. I am not arguing teflon or anything like that because obviously when it burns it kills. I am talking NORMAL everyday things.

So can someone explain what it is....why people are giving up perfume and scented candles? And what is the deal with febreeze? I hate the scent so I don't use it but I have never heard that it was bad.

[NotEnoughTime]

Originally Posted by Sorechia

So can someone explain what it is....why people are giving up perfume and scented candles?

I happen to agree with you. And a few people seem uncomfortable with this position.

If you search it out what you will find is that there are a few "cases" that are repeated over and over again on multiple web sites with respect to strong scents. These cases are cited as the sole reason for the death of a parrot, but when I've read through the cases it seems there could be many other reasons in addition to the one cited.

It seems, however, there is some evidence that essential oils when burned (burned - not when heated) can cause respratory illness in parrots... But that's the only real evidence I've been able to find. Everything else seems overblown to me...

That being said - I don't believe in subjecting anyone to super-strong scents since some people (a) find them offensive and (b) are alergic to certain scents. I can see parrots having similar issues.

Now... I can tell you all sorts of bad things about using Teflon or PTFE ;-)

[Sorechia]

Thank you for answering my post. I also shy away from strong scents (headaches etc).

[Doubleyolk]

How old is your oldest parrot and how long have they lived with you?
Have you ever had a parrot die in your care if so how old was it?

The problem is what the long term affects will be and chances are that they might not live out their life expectancy.

How do you know that your parrots have no problems from the things you listed?

[NotEnoughTime]

Originally Posted by Doubleyolk

How do you know that your parrots have no problems from the things you listed?

And how do you know there are?

This type of argument can be made for almost anything... If I avoided everything that *could* harm me or my bird then we wouldn't (my bird and I) have much of a life...

I like to look at things a little more logically than that... Why *should* odours harm a parrot? Especially considering the environment they came from (which is full of strong odours).

Some aromatherapy people would argue that certain scents are good for birds (you can find a number of these sites with a simple google search).

[Sorechia]

The oldest parrot I have is my Umbrella, she lives with my mom (long story) and she is 5. My mom has had and has finches also that have lived for long periods of time (I don't have an exact time frame but could get one if I call her after she gets home from work). She has 2 ecelctus and my umbrella (she has had the ekkies since 2004 but they are from an abusive home not sure of their ages) My green cheek died BUT she was stepped on my the ex-husband who was mad at me at the time (although he says he didn't see her). I have never had a parrot die for an unknown reason. I have never had a parrot die except that green cheek. There have been no health problems with any of the parrots, and they always get a clean bill of health at the vet. Now remember I am not talking about the burning of things etc (although there was that fire in my kitchen but the GCC was fine). I am talking EVERY DAY NORMAL living.

[Doubleyolk]

Originally Posted by NotEnoughTime

And how do you know there are?



:-)

Now we are getting off on the wrong direction here. I never said there was anything wrong with your birds. How come you won't answer my questions?

[Sorechia]

Originally Posted by NotEnoughTime

And how do you know there are?

This type of argument can be made for almost anything... If I avoided everything that *could* harm me or my bird then we wouldn't (my bird and I) have much of a life...

I like to look at things a little more logically than that... Why *should* odours harm a parrot? Especially considering the environment they came from (which is full of strong odours).

Some aromatherapy people would argue that certain scents are good for birds (you can find a number of these sites with a simple google search).

Thank you!! This is exactly what I think too but am always afraid of the flack I will get for it!! You said exactly what I think!!!

[Sorechia]

I did answer your question...that was someone else answering your question also....

[Lisa B]

Ventilation and the air sacs

Unlike mammals, birds do not possess a muscular diaphragm, and the lungs do not act as a pair of bellows. The design of the avian respiratory system is extraordinarily efficient, so that birds can extract sufficient oxygen for life even while undertaking strenuous exercise at altitudes of up to 7 or even 8 Km.

While the relative weight of the lungs is comparable to that seen in mammals, their relative volume is only one-tenth. This is because air flows through the lungs in a constant one-way stream, unlike mammals and reptiles where there is an inefficient tidal ebb and flow.

In addition the exchange surface (ie distance from air to blood) is much thinner in birds.

A major feature of the respiratory system of birds is pneumatisation of the long bones, the vertebral column and even the skull. These air spaces connect with the air sacs (below).

The air flow is a complex circulation involving pumping action of thin-walled air sacs in the thorax and abdomen. These extend into the long bones: in the 18th century John Hunter showed that birds could still breath with a blocked windpipe provided one of the long bones (he tried both the femur and the humerus) was connected to the outside air. Most of the major bones of the body connect with the air sac system. This gives lightness as well as being a reservoir of oxygen.

The major features of the respiratory system are as follows.


The nostrils are generally at the base of the upper mandible. There is no soft palate and both the oropharynx and the choanal opening pass air to the glottis to enter the larynx.

The trachea connects this to the syrinx, the site of vocalization generally at the tracheal bifurcation. This has three potential vibrating surfaces, which explains why birds like Magpies can sing complex harmonies of different pitch simultaneously. Birds vary considerably in the musculature and anatomy of the syrinx and this of course reflects the potential complexity of their vocalisation.

The primary bronchi connect the syrinx to each lung, but the air passes through in the mesobronchi to the abdominal and posterior (caudal) thoracic air sacs. These lie ventro-lateral to the abdominal viscera: between the intestines and the abdominal wall. In addition there are paired anterior air sacs and a single interclavicular air sacarising from the mesobronchi, but there is considerable variation on this basic pattern between species.,p> From the caudal air sacs the air now flows cranially through the lungs by dorsobronchi and ventrobronchi. These branch out into a complex arrangement of air capillaries or parabronchi. Blood capillaries in the walls of these flow counter to the air stream, allowing for a highly efficient gas exchange.

The stale air then passes to the anterior air sacs and to an unpaired interclavicular air sac, whence it discharges via the trachea.

There is thus a four-beat cycle to respiration:--
(1) First inhalation. Air passes to the posterior air sacs, with expansion of the abdomen.
(2) First exhalation. The abdomen contracts forcing air through the lungs.
(3) Second inhalation. As the abdomen expands again the stale air in the lungs is forced out to the anterior sacs.
(4) Second exhalation. Contraction of the abdomen and anterior sacs drives stale air out of the trachea while fresh air floods into the exchange region. See Fig 3-2 Plan of the air sacs

Most birds have 9 air sacs:
one interclavicular sac
two cervical sacs
two anterior thoracic sacs
two posterior thoracic sacs
two abdominal sacs
Functionally, these 9 air sacs can be divided into anterior sacs (interclavicular, cervicals, & anterior thoracics) & posterior sacs (posterior thoracics & abdominals). Air sacs have very thin walls with few blood vessels. So, they do not play a direct role in gas exchange. Rather, they act as a 'bellows' to ventilate the lungs (Powell 2000).


Air sacs and axial pneumatization in an extant avian. The body of bird in left lateral view, showing the cervical (C), interclavicular (I), anterior thoracic (AT), posterior thoracic (PT), and abdominal (AB) air sacs. The hatched area shows the volume change during exhalation. The cervical and anterior thoracic vertebrae are pneumatized by diverticula of the cervical air sacs. The posterior thoracic vertebrae and synsacrum are pneumatized by the abdominal air sacs in most taxa. Diverticula of the abdominal air sacs usually invade the vertebral column at several points. Diverticula often unite when they come into contact, producing a system of continuous vertebral airways extending from the third cervical vertebra to the end of the synsacrum. Modified from Duncker 1971.


So with the explanation of how the Lungs and Air Sacs work, along with education, science and avian medicine advancing, We know that they breath differently then us and that why they are harmed by things humans wouldnt be. Sadly, peoples birds had to die for us to learn this, and for us not to take that lesson and practice safety is even sadder.
You can not see the internal damage that has been done over time. If there are lesions on the lungs and or scarring. Just like you wont die from your first cigarette, or where did the evidence come from in regards to second hand smoke?
I say, you simply have been lucky.