Traveling between U. S. and Canada

[milojames]

Hi, all. I'm new here, although I've lurked for a while. I read a thread a while back about traveling with your pet bird between the U. S. and Canada and it was enormously helpful to me, because I was required to spend several months in Canada for my work.

My Eclectus came up to Canada to stay with me about a month after I got here. Relatives drove him up. They had some issues with the U. S. Customs side leaving the country, but the Canadian Customs said they thought everything was in order and they admitted my little guy. I had previously applied for a "pet passport" that's supposed to be good for a year.

Anyway, I'm getting ready to go back to the U. S. and I pulled out the paperwork that my family gave me when they brought the bird up to me and I found out that they had not taken him to the vet in the U. S. before they left. I thought maybe they had just neglected to give me the health certificate, but it turns out that they never got it. I had taken the bird to the vet about a month before I left the country for a specific issue and they thought I took care of the health certificate at that time, too. I didn't, of course, because it has to be done within 10 days (I think) before the border crossing and I was gone long before then.

So although the Fish and Wildlife permit is in order and I can get a local health certificate from Canada before I leave here, I don't have one from before his arrival and that's a requirement.

Is there anyone here who has any experience with this? I have no dea what I can do to rectify this or what they'll do when I show up with no pre-departure health cerificate. I've tried calling the Fish and Wildlife Service and gotten nothing but voicemails and no call back. I know this is probably a question that they're going to have to answer when I eventually do get hold of someone, but I was just hoping someone had some idea.

Thanks.

[Savery]

Quoting from:

Answer

Pet and performing birds originating in the United States may be reimported without being quarantined if they are accompanied by a United States veterinary health certificate and, if necessary, a permit from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service - with the exception of coming from a country where Highly Pathogenic Avian Bird Flu is evident, in which case they are subject to quarantine. This health certificate must be obtained prior to departure from the United States and must include a leg band or tattoo number


First off, I am not a lawyer. I can't tell you what to do, and anything that you do is at your own risk.

With that said, I see a couple of options:

1. Anonymously call US customs from another number. Don't identify yourself, don't give the species of bird, and if asked you could say you were calling on behalf of your elderly mother or something. Tell them the situation, and ask for advice. You may or may not get good advice. The person you are talking to may or may not know what they're talking about. There is a minor risk of you having legal or other trouble from this. However, there is also a chance that you will get a straightforward answer.

2. Call the vet and ask if they will issue you a health certificate based on the bird's last visit. Not sure how well this will work.

[r2rusmc]

Originally Posted by Savery

Quoting from:

Answer

Pet and performing birds originating in the United States may be reimported without being quarantined if they are accompanied by a United States veterinary health certificate and, if necessary, a permit from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service - with the exception of coming from a country where Highly Pathogenic Avian Bird Flu is evident, in which case they are subject to quarantine. This health certificate must be obtained prior to departure from the United States and must include a leg band or tattoo number


First off, I am not a lawyer. I can't tell you what to do, and anything that you do is at your own risk.

With that said, I see a couple of options:

1. Anonymously call US customs from another number. Don't identify yourself, don't give the species of bird, and if asked you could say you were calling on behalf of your elderly mother or something. Tell them the situation, and ask for advice. You may or may not get good advice. The person you are talking to may or may not know what they're talking about. There is a minor risk of you having legal or other trouble from this. However, there is also a chance that you will get a straightforward answer.

2. Call the vet and ask if they will issue you a health certificate based on the bird's last visit. Not sure how well this will work.

First of all. I can't believe that on an open public forum you would recommend illegal activity. I just can't believe you would do that. STUPID

Now onto milojames. I'm not sure why US Customs would have seen your bird at all when crossing into Canada. The US is not responsible for monitoring animals going into Canada. When you hit the Canadian border you should have been directed to the Canadian Port Veterinarian for his clearance.

Bringing your bird back into the US should not be an issue. First and foremost, get your Fish and Wildlife permits in order and get an appointment scheduled for your crossing over (should they have involvement). Once you have that, the rest is a cakewalk.

Importing Pet Birds at U.S.-Canadian Land Border Ports
Pet birds imported from Canada through any of the designated U.S.-Canadian land border ports are subject to veterinary inspection at the port of entry. The importer must contact the port at least 3 to 5 days prior to entry in order to assure the availability of a port veterinarian. (Most land border ports are not routinely staffed by a full-time port veterinarian, and the hours of service and availability for veterinary inspections vary from port to port.) Eligible land border ports of entry are listed below:

Alexandria Bay, NY (315) 482-2601
Baudette, MN (218) 634-2661
Champlain, NY ( 518) 298-2191
Derby Line, VT (802) 873-9338
Detroit, MI (313) 226-4428
Dunseith, ND (701) 263-3364
Eastport, ID (208) 267-2396
Highgate Springs, VT (802) 868-2556
Houlton, ME (207) 532-6099
Jackman, ME (207) 287-3701
Lewiston Bridge, NY (716) 297-6203
Oroville, WA (509) 476-2635
Pembina, ND (701) 825-6262
Port Huron, MI (810) 985-5433
Portal, ND (701) 926-4281
Raymond/Opheim, MT (406) 286-5258
Sault Ste. Marie, MI (906) 647-6512
Sumas, WA (360) 988-5715
Sweetgrass, MT (406) 335-2142

Upon veterinary inspection at the port of entry, the birds must be found free of clinical signs of communicable diseases of birds and poultry. The owner must sign a declaration stating that the birds are healthy and have been in his or her possession for a minimum of 90 days preceding the date of importation, and that during such time, the birds have not been in contact with poultry or other birds (i.e., in association with other avian species at exhibitions or in aviaries). A user fee, based on an hourly rate of $84 per hour (with a minimum fee of $25.00) will also be collected at this time.

I highly recommend you contact the Port Veterinarian for the land port where you will be crossing (assuming you are driving and not flying). The fee should be less than $30 as it only takes a couple of minutes to get the job done.

Relax. Canadians come down to overwinter in the US and they bring their birds with them all the time.

Also, plan to cross over on a weekday during normal business hours with plenty of time to spare. If you arrive at the US Port Vet after normal working hours the overtime charge is huge and you'll either have to pay it or go back to Canada and try it again the next day. That would require another appointment with Fish and Wildlife.

For future reference please reconsider traveling out of the US with your bird. If there is an outbreak of avian influenza on either side of the border it can halt any and all imports and exports. Just something to think about.

There is a store in Toronto that regularly imports birds to the US. CC Petshop. I'm sure you could call him (Fleing) for first hand experience.

Now the above info is for entering the US via a land port. If you plan on flying it is a whole different ballgame and it will include quarantine.

[milojames]

Thanks so much for your replies. I will continue to try to call someone at FWS or at Customs and ask them what I can do - short of turning back time and making sure my family members got the health certificate. I'm thinking I should call the port where I intend to cross and speak with a supervisor, and yes, I definitely will be driving because of the quarantine issues with flying.

The reason U. S. Customs saw the bird coming in is that when my family got to Canadian Customs with the bird, the officer was just about to stamp the papers and admit them when he noticed that there was a space on the form for U. S. Customs to sign. So he suggested they go back to U. S. Customs and get the signature for an export and then come back. When they went to U. S. Customs, the officer there didn't want to sign the form and insisted they needed a Fish and Wildlife veterinary exam for export - not true, I know, and my relatives tried to tell them that. I had printed out all the requirements for them before I left the country so they would know what they should have to deal with at the border when they crossed. Finally, after getting nowhere with the U. S. side, they went back to the Canadian Customs and the officer and his supervisor there researched online and looked through all their regulations and said they thought everything was good, so they let him in.

Now that I know there was no U. S. health certificate, I think maybe the U. S. Customs inspector maybe meant that since they didn't have the health certificate from the bird's vet, they would have to have the FWS vet do it. My family was thinking the health certificate was already obtained and sent in to the FWS to get the pet passport, so they were confused about that whole part and I wasn't there, so I don't really know exactly what the U. S. guy was trying to tell them.

In any case, as hard as I tried to make sure everything was done properly, it just didn't work out that way.

And r2rusmc, I agree in general about traveling with my parrot. In this circumstance, I did it because I was forced to be out of the country for 6 months to a year and about 2 weeks after I left, the bird started screaming. He screamed pretty much every waking minute, according to the family. I had warned them it would happen and told them he would stop, although it would probably take a while, but after a couple of weeks, they couldn't take it. He was miserable, they were miserable, and I was miserable once I started getting all the emails about how horrible it was. I knew there was a risk of avian influenza or something causing problems with bringing him back home, but my options were limited.

Thanks again for your responses.

[shosh]

thanks for the valuable information....not that I plan to live in the US for any length of time but it's always good to know..I'm bookmarking this page.

by the way, milojames, if I were moving to the US for 6 months, I'd be packing up the whole clan, too!! All the cats and the birds (might consider leaving the husband behind, though...lol).....couldn't bear to be without them for that long and I think I would be hard pressed to find people to look after the pack for so long (if I took the husband, that is...)! No apologies necessary for loving your animal and wanting what's best for both of you...

[r2rusmc]

FWS does not have a Vet come to look at your bird. They have an officer verify that your bird is what the import paperwork says it is, it is legal and you have the paperwork that they need.

After you see them you'll be sent to see the USDA Port Veterinarian who will look at your bird. This is nothing more than a visual inspection looking for obvious signs of illness.

Then you'll sign a couple of pages worth of paperwork. It is really pretty easy.

The worst part is dealing with US Customs that think they know everything but don't. They do not have veterinarians or animal health technicians on staff. They have a notebook with flip tabs that tell them what do with animals that cross the border. There are some excellent and knowledgeable agents (the older agents) but most of them are young, arrogant punks with an over-inflated ego.

[Savery]

Originally Posted by r2rusmc

First of all. I can't believe that on an open public forum you would recommend illegal activity. I just can't believe you would do that. STUPID

Why don't you tell me what i suggested that was illegal? Instead of calling me stupid?

I put a disclaimer in there to emphasize that any international dealings are full of pitfalls and what looks OK may be a violation of some obscure customs regulation, resulting in forfeiture, fines, prison, etc. If anything, I would recommend NOT giving straightforward advice on international dealings over the internet.

[chapala]

I think the advice to ask your US veterinarian for a health certificate dated the last time he/she saw the bird would be the best bet. Just include it in your paperwork even though the date isn't quite right. You may get other advice directly from F&W or customs to help also. Hope everything turns out okay!

[r2rusmc]

Originally Posted by Savery

Quoting from:

1. Anonymously call US customs from another number. Don't identify yourself, don't give the species of bird, and if asked you could say you were calling on behalf of your elderly mother or something. Tell them the situation, and ask for advice. You may or may not get good advice. The person you are talking to may or may not know what they're talking about. There is a minor risk of you having legal or other trouble from this. However, there is also a chance that you will get a straightforward answer.

2. Call the vet and ask if they will issue you a health certificate based on the bird's last visit. Not sure how well this will work.

First off I didn't say you were stupid. Suggesting illegal activity, now that was stupid. You can have stupid ideas without being stupid, there is a difference.

Calling customs anonymously? WTF is that all about? There is no crime involved with asking a question. Suggesting that it could risk legal trouble is stupid.

Now the biggie. Calling a vet and asking them to pre-date a health certificate on a bird they saw months ago. Why would you even suggest someone to ask a vet to do that? Think liability reasons here. I mean come on, you are suggesting the vet may forge a health certificate for the purposes of crossing an international border.

Sorry but thats illegal and just plain STUPID.

You should have followed your own advice regarding giving international advice in any manner.

[chapala]

Asking a vet to issue a health certificate at the time of the last visit - what is wrong with that? I don't see that as forging at all, just acknowledging that the bird was seen on such and such a date and was in good health with no communicable diseases seen. Now, whether the vet is willing to do it is another question.