Who's the experts on parrot nutrition on this forum??

[bobojenday]

I'm new to this forum and really would like to know some opinions on different bird foods. I'm looking at switching them to possibly TOP Pellets or Bird-elicious dehydrated food. On the TOP Pellets website it states this
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Why we don’t have soy, peanuts or wheat in our pellets.

SOY BEANS
There is more and more disturbing data found about soy beans and products. Soy beans in their natural state contain large quantities of natural toxins and there is data that soy is cumulatively toxic when fed to animals. For example, The PARROT SOCIETY NEW ZEALAND claims that soy products in bird food have caused such problems as immune system breakdown, failure of organs and multiplication of the birds' own benign bacteria.

PEANUTS
It seems that more and more birds develop allergic reactions to peanuts, so we view them as a great treat for birds that are not allergic to them, but not part of their daily diet.

WHEAT
Wheat is a common allergen and contains about 80 different components that can cause a negative reaction. The number of people that are allergic to wheat and wheat products is raising daily in alarming amounts. If that is the case for humans, and we are not sure how it acts in birds, better safe than sorry.
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Now the Harrisons I'm feeding does list ground soybeans, and ground shelled peanuts as 5th and 6th ingredients so is this bad or do we just need more research first to back this claim up? Another thing is TOP pellets are cold pressed (which I think is good ) and Harrisons is extruded but at cooler temperatures. What do you guys think is the better pellet here?

[birdsnreps]

Is your bird on an all seed diet right now?? there are tons of methods for converting birds, and there are a ton of diff pellets out there. this is what i did when i switched all my birds to pellets, and why we chose zupreem:

i went to the bird shop and got a big bag, and we just poured in every type of pellet they had, including pretty bird, zupreem, kaytee, harriisons, roudybush, etc. we mixed it all together and served just this pellet mixture to all of our birds, alogn with their daily fruits and veggies, NO seed. the first maybe...2 days, the birds were probably thinking, "what the heck is this stuff? but after about the 3rd day, they started to pick and choose what they wanted to. they of course ate their fruits and veggies, and they ate all the zupreem we put in there. they kinda liked the pretty bird natural gold as well, but every day all the zupreem was gone, it was not in their bowl nor was it on their cage bottoms. the BIRDS chose zupreem, NOT me. we use zupreem in the zoos, so i know zupreem is top notch. the birds totally ignored every other pellet we gave them, so we went ahead and just gave them zupreem. after a few months, we started adding some seed back in their diet, and they still enjoy their pellets :) they like both fruity blend and natural blends.

honestly, i think the best thing you can do for your bird is give as wide a variety as possible, not just pellets, not just seed, not just two or three diff fruits/veggies, but a mixture of everything you can find. that way they get tons of diff nutrients and arent limited to just the few that are in pellets, or just the few that are in fruits, etc. We buy a diff seed mix every time we run out, we buy every kind of fruit or veggie we can find, we use dried fruits, dried peppers, anything we can find really and we only give the base veggie mix plus one or two extras (like grated carrots and green bell peppers one day, jalapenos and sweet potatoe the next) and two or three diff fruits a day (oranges and apples one day, grapes and bananas the next), and just alternate their diets every day. sometimes we switch in between fruit and natural blend zupreem as well, and when we have the extra cash, we add in some pretty bird natural gold. birds can really benefit from eating some human food daily, or every other day, as long as its healthy for them.

just watch how you present the new foods to your birds. they might like finely chopped greens and small chunks of fruits, or they might like it when you hang their healthy food from the sides or tops of their cages, or they might like everything in separate bowls, it just depends on what your individual bird likes :)

of course you have to think about what type of bird you have as well. too's for example need a lower-fat diet, macaws do well with a little more fat, ekkies dont do well when they eat too many pellets, etc.

[bobojenday]

I have a jenday conure and 2 finches (spice and a zebra) they have all been on Harrison's pellets for over 2 years but I'm wondering if this is "the best" pellet I can give them. They get corn and carrots in a dish daily with the pellets and sometimes (couple times a week) apple and bananas. But thats it for fresh food so that is why I want to know if there are any other better pellet forumlas. I tried Pretty Bird and Kaytee before I put them on Harrisons but they didn't like them which I'm glad because I believe Harrisons is much better then those brands. I'm now looking at TOP pellets and want to know if anyone thinks they are better than Harrisons or if anyone has tried Bird-elicious (dehydrated food that I think is fairly new) but seems like it may be very good.

When you say that it is best to feed a variety I believe so too if possible. That is why bird-elicious sounds good if I change from pellets all together to something different. Here are the ingredients for the Species Specific Conure doesn't it seem good and lots of different foods in there? I'm hoping someone that has tried this food will respond.

100% Human-grade, natural and organic ingredients: Bananas, alfalfa, cranberries, yams, squash, hemp seed meal, apricots, carrots, unsweetened coconut, red bell pepper, mango, cherries, hemp oil, kiwi, papaya, buckwheat groats meal (not wheat, actually a berry!), safflower seed, oat groats, sunflower seed meal, almonds, quinoa, black beans, pumpkin seed, hemp seed, raisins, bee pollen, blueberries, buckwheat groats, palm oil, pineapple, Brazilian marine coral calcium, CA-Montmorillonite clay, basil, cilantro, eucalyptus leaves, ginger, kelp, schisandra berry powder, parsley, proprietary edible flower mix, rose hips, sage, one of the following tender-shoot grasses (all contain similar nutrition): wheatgrass, barleygrass, alfalfa grass, wild mountain oregano. In addition, flash-frozen, dehydrated, finely ground mealworms providing essential "animal protein", representing less than .25% of total protein sources in any of our formulas..
We cannot list the worms in our general list of ingredients because they are not considered "human-grade" by the FDA. However, they are raised on human-grade foodstuffs, usually carrots and barley.

[birdsnreps]

Ive heard of the bird-elicious, but i dont think ive seen it in the stores here, and i know i havent tried it. I think you should give it a try though, maybe your birds will like it, or maybe they wont, there is only one way to find out.

i have never heard of TOP pellets, i really dont know what to say about those. i really think that most of the name brand pellets out there are good, its just up to the bird to choose which one they really like. we have alot of breeder birds, and zupreem makes a breeder pellet that contains extra fat, protein and calicum which breeder birds need extra of, thats another reason that we choose to use zupreem, besides the fact that this is the only pellet they really like. we see excellent results from the zupreem, but i know other people who say they get great results with most of the other pellets that are out there.

my birds will eat just about any fresh fruit or veggie that i give them, im very fortunate to have piggie birds, every single one of them eats like a pig. i would suggest that you try out the TOP pellets and the bird-elicious, just not as an every day for the rest of their lives thing. i would switch the food that you feed them just so they dont get bored of eating the same thing every day. i would say just try to choose stuff that the birds will like, whatever that may be. if they cant eat something that they like everyday, i really dont see them being truely happy. you know food is usually the way to a bird's heart, most birds love eating, lol.

[bobojenday]

Originally Posted by birdsnreps

my birds will eat just about any fresh fruit or veggie that i give them, im very fortunate to have piggie birds, every single one of them eats like a pig. i would suggest that you try out the TOP pellets and the bird-elicious, just not as an every day for the rest of their lives thing. i would switch the food that you feed them just so they dont get bored of eating the same thing every day. i would say just try to choose stuff that the birds will like, whatever that may be. if they cant eat something that they like everyday, i really dont see them being truely happy. you know food is usually the way to a bird's heart, most birds love eating, lol.

My conure is one of those piggy birds too. LOL. He tries different foods eagerly. I think watermelon seeds are his favorite. But if he has seed and pellets together he will throw out all the pellets and only eat the seed. Seed he is given once in awhile as a treat otherwise I can't keep him on the pellets. I do believe maybe a switch would be good though for them like you were saying. Maybe the new pellet or food I will try will make up for something the Harrison's diet was deficient on. And far as the food for the birds heart I totally agree. Birds basically have 3 things in life, there other cage mates (if they have any) , human friends, and FOOD FOOD FOOD!!! That is their life as pets. He even makes these happy little sounds when he's getting a treat or table food he loves. LOL

Thanks for responding

[tielfan]

It's well known that an all seed diet is bad, but after that it's all controversial. Some people don't trust pellets at all, some say one kind is bad and another is good, and some think an 80% pellet diet (any kind) is the way to go. NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE WHAT THE IDEAL DIET IS.

I don't believe in extremes of any kind, so I feed my cockatiels a mixed diet of sprouts, veggies/fruits, seed, and pellets (mostly Harrisons). They started out as seed junkies so I had to teach them to eat most of that stuff. But now I just put a bunch of food cups in the cage and let them take what they want, and all of them eat a nice mix of everything. The amount of pellets that they choose to eat is about 10% of their total intake and that's OK with me. I don't have a huge amount of faith in processed foods, but I consider a few pellets to be an insurance policy for any gaps in the rest of their diet. The birds are healthy and happy and I'm happy too.

[tielfan]

P.S. About wheat: birds love it, and keeping birds out the fields is a problem for farmers. My birds devour sprouted wheat berries.

There's some concern about the hormonal effect of soybeans because they contain phytoestrogens but many birds don't seem to have a problem (of course the longterm results aren't really in yet). The pellet ingredients issue is more of a concern for ekkies than for other species.

[birdsnreps]

yea, what every one feeds their birds is diff. we breed several diff species, so we have to make sure to prepare their food correctly, but the differences between our birds' diet needs isnt huge, so its not a big deal...yet. just wait til i get my softbills. their diet is totally diff from a parrots.

first, lemme say that i buy 2 diff sizes of pellets, small birds eat zupreem tiel sized pellets, and i also buy either macaw sized pellets, or parrots and conure size. my larger birds will eat either of those sizes. we also use zupreem primate chow (monkey biscuits), soak them in hot water, and when they get soft, i mush them up between my fingers and give EVERYONE some, they LOVE it!! especially the babies :) the monkey chow we always put on TOP of the rest of their food cause they eat these first. we dont give monkey chow every day though. when we prepare our food we have the two diff sized plastic bins. we put the small-chopped fruits and veggeis in one bin, and throw several scoops of the pellet/seed mix in there, and we mix it all up, then serve. in the other bin, we throw the larger chunks of fruit/veggie mix, and dump several scoops of the larger pellet/seed mix, chopped nuts (not every day), dried fruits, whatever else they are eating that day, mix it all together and serve. for us, all this mixing works extremely well, and they end up eating everything, and they drop very little of their food on the floor. we tried using separate bowls for each type of food, (pellets in one bowl, seed in the other, fresh stuff in yet another bowl), it did not work for us at all. they barely ate anything. we also tried mixing their pellets and seeds together in the smae bowl, and then putting all their fresh stuff on top of that, and it didnt work at all either. they ended up dumping all their fresh stuff out to eat the pellets first, then they would just stare at the floor, looking at all the yummy food they just dumped out. so, mixing everythign together works best for us :)

for the tiels, i mix their small pellets wtih seed, about a 50/50 mixture. they get millet as treats maybe 2-3 times a week. they like their fruits and veggies chopped up small, so i have to make sure their healthy fresh stuff is small enough for them. i mix their food in their own small plastic bin before i serve them. they do not get as much fruit/veggie mix as the larger birds. they prefer not to eat the larger pellets, but, every once in a while, the shipping guy doesnt bring my bird food on time, so they gotta eat whatever we have, lol, meaning the larger pellets. (we always have at least one of the two sizes though). the tiels dont really enjoy any of the chopped nuts. when we give them peanuts, its really just for their amusement, they love to crunch the shells, lol.

my plum heads eat kinda similar to the tiels, except i alternate every day between large and small pellets as they enjoy both sizes :) they get just a little bit more fruit than the tiels get. the plums also love their millet, so they get millet whenever the tiels get it. they also enjoy chopped mixed nuts (i buy the large bags of mixed macaw nuts, shell them for the small birds, chop them up into small pieces, and this is what the plums like). the plums also like their fruits and veggies chopped small.

now, the bulk of our other birds get fed like this....this group includes our alexandrines, poicephalus, moustached keets, quakers, caiques, and conures. they eat the larger pellets. I mix the larger pellets with diff brands of seed or dried fruit and nut mix, or both sometimes. they get about 60%pellets, and the rest is the nut, dried fruit and seed mix (seed mix). they get much more fruit/veggie mix than the smaller guys, i try to make it so that about 50% of their diet is made up of fresh stuff. they really seem to thrive on al the extra fresh stuff, and we get awesome babies when the parents are able to feed their babies all the good, fresh stuff :) it does NOT give them diarhea or anything, it feels really natural for them, i think. this med-sized bird group also gets chopped nuts, just not chopped as small as the smaller birds. sometimes i just crack open the really hard nuts, just enough so that they can finish opening it up themselves, and they really seem to enjoy "working" for their nut.

with our macaws, we give them large chunks of fruits and veggies, and they shell their own nuts, so all i do with them is just throw their big chunks and large nuts in there, and they do the rest :) they are prob the easiest group of birds to feed, lol. besides, the macaws are birds that truely enjoy eating, and they enjoy working hard for their food, lol. we have little puzzle toys that we just got, we are trying to get them to learn how to get their treats out of it, lol. our macaws get no less than 50% fresh stuff, period. they must have their fruits and veggies, and plenty of them. macaws will also chow down on those monkey biscuits, eat will eat a good 3-5 of them daily if they had their choice, lol.

now, we just started taking care of canaries, they eat differently from everyone else. i give them the standard canary food, and we have to put their fresh stuff in the food proccessor, or they are too big, and the birds wont eat them. they need the tiny little pieces of fresh food. we just mix the tiny bits of fresh stuff in with their seed/pellet mix. they really enjjoy carrots and hard boiled egg. they will also enjoy fruit wedges stuck in between the bars of their cage, and they also like leafy greens hung so that they can pick at them while they are up perching and stuff.

im also going to be getting my very first hornbill hopefully by the end of the month, and she will need a diff diet. hornbills are iron-storage birds, so we must be extermely careful what we feed her. my pick, which we also use at the zoo, is mazuri softbill pellets, soaked and soft. about 70% of their diet must consist of papaya, if that is not availible, you can subsitute cantalope for the papaya. they also need plenty of grapes and about 5% of their diet should also consist of blue berries.

in addition to the friuits and veggies, we also cook them a bean mix, and diff varieties of cornbread, wtih mixed in veggies and/or hard boiled eggs, shells and all. during breeding season, we feed hard boiled egg about every other day. the babies and pets get some too, and everyone just DEVOURS the eggs!! we crush the shells and mush up the yolk and egg white, and they just love it. we put the eggs on the top of the rest of their food, and they will eat it first, and they never, ever drop their precious hard boiled egg, and they sure dont leave any in the food cups, lol.

anyway, this is a pretty detailed description of what we do every day. we have a local store that sells every kind of fruit for really cheap, so we are pretty lucky :) fruit isnt cheap, esepecially when you have as many birds as we do, lol. they sell alot of diff varieties of peppers, which our birds also love, so thats good too :) we even get seedless watermelons, big huge ones, for like 3-4 bucks, i think its a deal :) that one watermelon lasts a while, and that watermelon will feed both birds and humans, lol.

[birdsnreps]

oh, i also forgot about ekkies!! im getting my very first ekkie real soon too and shes gonna need more seed mix than pellets, and we will prob give her more fresh stuff than everyone else too :)

[hollyhawkz]

I am a strong believer that foods need to be diverse. Pellets for vitamins, seeds to keep him happy and occupied, Nutriberries that I hide around his cage to keep up that foraging instinct, fresh fruits and vegatables to assure balance etc... etc...

This is my Baby's diet (along with beak block, and millet spray always in cage)

His diet consists of Kaytee Exact Organic, Sunscription Vita Plus Conure Formula (but I pick out most of the colored pelets as there is so much sugar, dye and flavouring that isn't good and throw in some dry organic ones), Lafebers' Tropical Fruit Nutriberries (He hates the raisins and cranberries choice), Organic Broccoli, Sweet Potatoe, Yam, Cantelope, various home grown unsprayed local organic fruits then: ocassionally dried fig (so much natural sugar), scrambled egg, honeydew, watermelon and other fruits I can peel any toxins off etc... Unfortunately, the nearest store that has organic fruits is in Vancouver about 100 miles away.

I've always disliked the idea of filling Wawa up on pasta being that it is practically empty carbs, so I started looking around to find a pasta alternative. I finally found a store about 40 miles from here that sells Kaytee exact ORGANIC. Organic food being the type I was looking for and Kaytee is the only one I found so far. (Near Harrison Hot Springs, BC Canada)

Anyway, to the point: If you take a few and let them soak for a couple minutes in little bit of hot water, they swell but do not go mushy, the consitency is like pasta. Now there isn't much smell to them so I hand ground organic cinnamon and put about 2 tablespoons in the bag. I shake it up a little before I grab his morning treat. I'm impressed, Wawa will actually go for the "Pasta" before his fresh morning seeds. Finally I feel satisfied that I am getting good nutrition into him. So much to think about to be a responsible good pet owner hey?? All the best.