Help...Biting caique...I cant keep him anymore.

[rockybird]

Thanks so much Freedomoflight! Balvino, I am so sorry about your senegal. You hit the nail on the head. If Zeek went to the wrong home, the biting would surely lead to abuse.


[quote=Freedomoflight;652959]Hmm. I do think that he has you curled around his little toe- the screaming when you walk out of the room shows that. I'd try a couple of things:

first, assume he is hormonal. Start eliminating soft, warm, mushy foods from his diet. Is he on a pellet or a seed? Check his diet for hemp foods- a person on my forum had a caique that went absolutely nutso when fed hemp. It really fires up their hormones.

He's on a seed diet with admixed pellets, which he and Rocky refuse to eat. I think they would rather starve than eat pellets. I gave him lasagna before the last bite and warm corn. He gets warm vegetables every night. Should I cut that out? I think he needs it. He loves sugar and I give him a piece of sugary granola bar every morning. Most of it ends up on the cage bottom. Could part of it be the sugar?

Regulate his sleeping schedule- try 10-12 hours of uninterrupted sleep per night. Right now he is getting about 8? I think you were right to take out the mirror. If he has trouble sleeping, try putting a happy hut or similiar in his cage.

I will try more sleep. That is a good idea. For him also. ;)

When he bites and you yell, that to him is a drama reward. "ooo look if I go like this *chomp* it makes my human make all sorts of funny noises!" when he bites, push into his beak to release, and calmly put him on a time out perch. Putting him back in the cage may be a reward in his eyes- away from the situation, and now he is allowed to play with all his cool toys. Putting him on a t perch for 4 minutes (since he is 4 years old) would be a sufficient time out.

I cant help but yell! He LATCHES on! I mean there is blood everywhere. I cant even pick him up or he will attack again. He is CRAZY when he is like this. Sometimes I can see it coming. I will see his eyes go pinpoint and he will start huffing and fluff up his feather and rubbing his beak methodically on the counter or cage bars. No matter how sweet I talk to him he will not relent. I am seriously worried that he is going to scar my face. I wonder if he needs to feel like a bird again and not a treasured little baby. Maybe I should stop putting him on my shoulder. I bought a bird gym...you know, the plastic one with branches on wheels. He is scared to death of it. He is scared of boxes and will scream and run away. I think something must have happened in the cargo hold as a baby with the boxes when he was shipped to me. He will literally panic if he sees a box.

Try to mix up his schedule a bit. Cut down on the cuddling time before bed a bit, and perhaps give him more ambient attention in the morning. Try to do more hands off activities with him, and start teaching him acceptable behaviors. Does he 'teeth' on you like mine do? Grab the flesh between your fingers and chew? If he does, keep a small toy on hand and redirect him towards the toy rather then your hand. When he starts biting you can tell him no, and to stop in a firm voice. Try and react more calmly to his bites.

I will cut down on the cuddling. He doesnt teeth at all. He will wrestle with my fingers while laying on his back, but is SO GENTLE not to press to hard. When Rocky went through a nippy stage, I would place him on the perch and walk away or leave him alone on the counter or where ever he was and turn my back. He would wimper. He learned so quickly! He NEVER bites now! He is so smart. I think Zeek would learn except that he is so crazy when he gets like this that he cant think rationally. Have your caiques ever done this?

Perhaps re-arrange his cage, or simply switch places, so his cage is now where the other birds cage is. Caiques tend to get extremely territorial of their perceived area, so you want to mix it up a lot. Can you get him in a harness? Perhaps taking him on daily walks outside, weather permitting, around the block can help both of you relax.

I will switch the places with the birds. Great idea! I bought a bird diaper when he was a baby. I followed all the instructions. Played games with it for days, but when I tried to put it on him you wouldve thought I was going to eat him. I dont think the harness will work. I tried the harness with Rocky and almost lost all my fingers. I tried to take Zeek out more thinking he needed to get used to people until he attacked me in the car. It probably isnt a good idea to have him loose in the car, but it was just for a block to Starbucks. I used to take him and Rocky outside to look at the flowers and trees, but I stopped as it got cold. I will start again. Unfortunately, I cant take Rocky out as the vet who trimmed his feathers didnt do it right. He is fully flighted. I am having a HECK of a time finding someone who knows what they are doing when grooming birds!

[sweetpeaches]

i think all of freedomflight's advice is very good. i've read in many places that caiques don't bond as strongly to people as some others parrots do. but i think if one person (like yourself) is the only one constantly with the bird, he will become very bonded to you. i've only had my caique for two months, but my husband tells me that when i go to work bailey is pretty quiet, as soon as i walk in the door and he hears my voice he pipes right up. he whistles, chirps, etc. as touching as this is, i don't take him out of his cage right away, but wait a bit then take him out. he's out for awhile (maybe 15 mins. to 1/2 hour) then he goes back in while i take my lovebird out of his cage for a bit. this continues off and on until it's their bedtime.

i also encourage my husband and others to hold bailey and interact with him also.

sleep is very important for birds. remember in the wild they go to settle down/sleep when it becomes dark and wake up when it gets light.

i'm really hoping you two can work through this. there are so many variables and if you continue to become aware of ways to help zeek hopefully you two can be together for a long time.

[Freedomoflight]

I know the biting hurts, its hard not to yell!

Check his seed for any listing of hemp. That is a really big trigger in caiques. Most pellets contain hemp too, so I think that as long as he is on a hemp free seed with lots of other healthy foods, he should be OK.

I would start cutting out the warm veggies and replacing them with fresh. Warm foods to a bird is like you regurgitating for them, lol. 'She loves me, she really loves me!!' Does he regurg for you a lot?

The sugar could be a part of it- perhaps switching to natural granola would be better.

I think you would be best off not putting him on your shoulder. If he goes into pissypants mode and lunges for your face- ouch. That would not be a good situation. When he is out, and goes into pissypants mode and you can't pick him up again, grab a large fluffy towel and drap it over him. Then pick him up that way and put him back in his cage or timeout perch or whatever you have set up. Thats the only way I used to be able to handle my BHC. Part of his hissy fit may be knowing that you won't/can't pick him up, so for that period of time he can get away with whatever he wants.

"I think Zeek would learn except that he is so crazy when he gets like this that he cant think rationally. Have your caiques ever done this?"

Yes, they have. And I've got the scars to prove it! That 'craziness' is what I refer to as overload. It especially happens during rough play. His eyes get really red and dilated, right? Then he starts just lashing out? Thats what mine do. So what you can do is really monitor his body language, and when his eyes start getting dilated and he starts puffing those feathers a bit- back off. Just tell him to be calm, and go put him in a neutral area, like a play perch or something. Head off the behavior before it happens.

I understand about the harness not working. Mine scream bloody murder when I attempt to put on one, too :) If you have a cat carrier or something of the sorts, just putting him in the carrier and walking around the block would work as well.

Do you have a bird store near you? They usually offer grooming services. Or, if you know how to do it yourself, have a friend come over and hold the birdie (snug in a towel!) and you can do a quick clip.

Ok another thought- you said he loves sugar. There is some Lori Nectar, made by Goldenfeast, that maybe you could try. Caiques in the wild eat nectar and pollen, and in captivity they looove nectar. I give mine some a couple times a week as a treat, but it is super nutritious and tastes really sweet. Perhaps replacing that with the sugar granola bar would help.

[rockybird]

Originally Posted by Freedomoflight

I know the biting hurts, its hard not to yell!

Check his seed for any listing of hemp. That is a really big trigger in caiques. Most pellets contain hemp too, so I think that as long as he is on a hemp free seed with lots of other healthy foods, he should be OK.

I would start cutting out the warm veggies and replacing them with fresh. Warm foods to a bird is like you regurgitating for them, lol. 'She loves me, she really loves me!!' Does he regurg for you a lot?

The sugar could be a part of it- perhaps switching to natural granola would be better.

I think you would be best off not putting him on your shoulder. If he goes into pissypants mode and lunges for your face- ouch. That would not be a good situation. When he is out, and goes into pissypants mode and you can't pick him up again, grab a large fluffy towel and drap it over him. Then pick him up that way and put him back in his cage or timeout perch or whatever you have set up. Thats the only way I used to be able to handle my BHC. Part of his hissy fit may be knowing that you won't/can't pick him up, so for that period of time he can get away with whatever he wants.

"I think Zeek would learn except that he is so crazy when he gets like this that he cant think rationally. Have your caiques ever done this?"

Yes, they have. And I've got the scars to prove it! That 'craziness' is what I refer to as overload. It especially happens during rough play. His eyes get really red and dilated, right? Then he starts just lashing out? Thats what mine do. So what you can do is really monitor his body language, and when his eyes start getting dilated and he starts puffing those feathers a bit- back off. Just tell him to be calm, and go put him in a neutral area, like a play perch or something. Head off the behavior before it happens.

I understand about the harness not working. Mine scream bloody murder when I attempt to put on one, too :) If you have a cat carrier or something of the sorts, just putting him in the carrier and walking around the block would work as well.

Do you have a bird store near you? They usually offer grooming services. Or, if you know how to do it yourself, have a friend come over and hold the birdie (snug in a towel!) and you can do a quick clip.

Ok another thought- you said he loves sugar. There is some Lori Nectar, made by Goldenfeast, that maybe you could try. Caiques in the wild eat nectar and pollen, and in captivity they looove nectar. I give mine some a couple times a week as a treat, but it is super nutritious and tastes really sweet. Perhaps replacing that with the sugar granola bar would help.

Thanks Freedomoflight. Well, THurs. he attempted to bite again. Yesterday, he was an angel. Playing, cuddling, wrestling, just a sweetheart. But I did not allow him on my shoulder. When he is good like this, I couldnt ask for a better pet. I will check for hemp in the seed. He does seem to bite more often after warm foods. He occasionally tries to feed me or Rocky (not successful, thank God).

Well Zeek is so tame, he will lay on his back in my hand while I trim his nails, even his beak. He will even lay on his back in my hand in the shower. ROcky, the little Py., is also very tame and VERY affectionate, but everything is on his terms. He HATES scissors and attacks them with a venegance. He is so little that I am scared to trim him. Plus, I dont want to lose his trust. Once I took him to a bird shop to get trimmed and they cut his toenail COMPLETELY off! And they didnt tell me! He seemed very subdued afterwards (he must have been in horrible pain). I noticed one of my shirts had blood all over it and I couldnt figure out where it came from until I saw ROcky holding his foot up. My poor baby. I was FURIOUS. I called the shop and bitched them out. I took him to the vet. THey had also cut part of his toe. He said it would never grow back normal. My poor little guy. I know of one shop that will cut nails that I have had good luck with, just a long drive. I will probably start doing that again.

Well, thanks again. I will continue to tackle this problem. I love him so much that I dont think I can get rid of him yet. I will try all of the steps you suggested.

THanks,

jenny

[sweetpeaches]

hi jenny...glad to hear you're going to give zeek more time. i know you must love him very much. bailey is only 6 mos. but i've noticed from mid morning to late afternoon he seems to be a little more "active-hyper" than the other times of the day. when i take him out of his cage he'll bend down and beak my finger pretty hard..i tell him no bite while wobbling my hand...at these times he's seems very excited to get out...so this must be the time of day when he's "pretty rammy" now that i know that, i'm prepared for the more "harder beaking". it's so important to "read our fids".
btw...i just had a terrible experience with bailey this weekend with the nail cutting. i also took him to get his nails cut and three hours after i returned home his one nail started bleeding like crazy...blood everywhere! i used cornstarch, flour, soap...and finally got it to stop...well 3 hours later it started again..he had blood on his head, belly, feet...on me...i was a wreck..i went to the drugstore and bought some styptic stuff it stopped the bleeding. i slept on the couch all nite by his cage (actually i woke up every 1/2 hr. checking on him) but it finally stopped. he also held his foot up for a couple days afterward. i will now try to file his nails myself.
anyway..best wishes with zeek!

[Lisa B]

Jenny,I am glad you are going to give him more time.
and btw, ya cant get better advice then from our own Caique expert, Miss freedom

[Freedomoflight]

Awwww *blushes*

Jenny I am glad Zeek is doing a bit better. Expect bites, and you won't be suprised when it happens. It sounds like you are on the right path, though! Please keep us updated.

[rockybird]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the support. He is such a little monster. But he is so lovable also. That is what makes it so hard.

Sweetpeaches! I am so sorry about your little one! What a shock that mustve been. I am glad you stopped the bleeding. That could have been disasterous. :( Good luck with your baby caique.

jenny

[Freedomoflight]

SADDLEPANTS! I just cottoned on to who it was when I saw your picture of Lizzy!