finch breed backing/crossing

[rainefeather19128]

i'm just wondering.no need to attack me...

what is so wrong with breeding back birds.daughter to father, mother to son,brother to sister?it is done with cows and a few others and the results are fine.has anyone had proof of the damage it does?

what is wrong with crossbreeding finches?society to zebra?especially if they are for one's own.why does everyone hate them.crosses don't seem to look too bad.

[expressmailtome]

I am not so sure about the first question except that I have heard that it can weaken the genes and can cause birth defects if done too much. As for hybrids, people's feelings are pretty mixed. There are many people for them and many people against them. They are very popular with macaws. Some people dislike them because they believe that it is genetically wrong/damaging. It has nothing to do with how they visually look.

Matt

[rainefeather19128]

i think crosses aren't too bad if kept for one's own use.(beauty and such)it doesn't stop the true parents from having a pure clutch.how bad is breeding brother to sister though? will they be born with disabilities 90 or 100 % of the time?

[nixity]

Back-breeding and in-breeding are looked down upon for a couple of reasons:

1. It is genetically ill-advised to breed closely related birds because of degenerative genetic effects which DO (this isn't a hypothetical, this is cold hard fact) occur. This is just as true for people as it is for birds. A lot of recessive health defects start to pop up in generations after in-breeding/back-breeding has been taking place over and over. This is why there were so many health issues and genetic diseases in the royal families - they kept it "within the family" in terms of marriages etc.
The problem is - you could do it once and see no visual problems, but there could be something biologically/mechanically wrong that may not be visible to the naked eye but selects for that bird to be genetically weaker. Maybe it has less resistance to disease, or maybe it has a harder time reproductively, or maybe it just doesn't live as long.

2. There is really no good reason to breed a father to a daughter unless you have a brand new mutation on your hands and you are specifically trying to select to produce it again. If you are simply trying to get more birds, it is completely irresponsible and lazy to pair a father to a daughter rather than seeking out a breeder or someone willing to trade to bring new blood into your breeding program.

The basic, important rule of thumb being - you should avoid back breeding or in breeding unless you have some rare, unseen mutation that you feel is necessary to select for, and even then - if you feel it is something heritable, you could still cross out and line breed with less degenerative effects (e.g., breeding 2nd cousins).

[rainefeather19128]

thanks nixty:) my problem is that brother has seemed to bred to sister.now she has eggs and i am debating if i should or should not let the eggs hatch.brothers and sisters are now separated.i honestly never intended for this to happen.i only want my parent birds to breed as well as if i can get my societies to breed.after that i'm separating all the males and all females into two different groups.they will stay unbred for quite a few years. sister has 2 eggs so far,should i let her lay a whole clutch and take them?mine never seem to lay unless they are bred.help?

[nixity]

If it were me, I would not keep the eggs.
I do not know much about Zebras or the gene pool, but with Gouldians, inbreeding like this (brother to sister) is really not advisable due to the delicacy of some of the mutations to begin with. This just sort of "breeds" trouble - bad pun, I know..

The other thing, is I don't think it would be a good idea [morally] to sell babies from a brother/sister pairing. Maybe give them away as pets to homes that will not breed them. Or only give away same sex pairs (e.g., two males or two females) so that breeding is not a possibility.

[rainefeather19128]

meh, i just took the eggs away and removed the mates.hopefully she isn't hurt too bad.so far,there are no eggs and no mates:)

[Peanutbutter]

I have an egg laying Cockatiel... not sure if finches are different, but i wouldnt doubt it.

i thought the general rule was to leave the eggs.... if u remove them the hen will just replace them... and that leads to constant egg laying.

I'd put them back and leave them (with any future ones) & let her sit on them until past time for them to hatch --so she knows they are duds-- AND until she looses interest completely. About a month.

(boil them if they could be fertile & u dont want babies)

She is probably laying because its Spring time... more sunlight. Try making her cage darker for 12-14hrs a day for a few weeks and see if she stops.

I'm dealing w/ this with my Holly (cockatiel) right now... she seems to have stopped at 7 eggs for the moment. Here is the main resource where I read about how to stop hens laying:
Cockatiels, egg laying process, chronic egg laying in cockatiels and single birds, female cockatiels laying eggs, single birds laying eggs, how to stop a cockatiel and other birds from laying eggs, how avian bird eggs are fertilized, avian female rep

[rainefeather19128]

none of mine ever layed without being bred though,it's wierd but i am thankful.
no nest,material,mate,or being bred=no eggs.

i dunno how it is for other birds though,i've only had finches,parakeets,conures,and doves.