Cicero is taking Baytril

[Snazy]

The avian vet I see has prescribed Baytril for Cicero, my red factor canary. He stopped singing last week and lost interest in his favorite treat--corn on the cob. By the weekend I could hear him clicking and wheezing so took him to the vet immediately. She thinks it is a respiratory issue and prescribed a drop of Baytril 2 times a day for 7 days. So far I have administered 5 doses over 2 1/2 days. I still hear breathing noises but he is back to eating another of his favorite foods, broccoli. He eats his seeds and egg food too. I am wondering how long it might take for the antibiotics to work and when I might expect his breathing noises to clear up. Cicero landed on my deck last August and I captured him before he could be eaten by 3 nasty raccoons. I have fallen in love with the little guy and am really worried about him. Any insight you all have would be most appreciated.

[expressmailtome]

I do not know about that medication but I am sorry to hear about Cicero. I hope that he fully recovers soon!

Matt

[Monica]

I don't know much about softbills, but my first thoughts were actually not a bacterial infection but air sac mites, which fits the description you provided....

Lady Gouldian Finch .com - Air Sac Mites

[Snazy]

Originally Posted by expressmailtome

I do not know about that medication but I am sorry to hear about Cicero. I hope that he fully recovers soon!

Matt

Thanks Matt. I just love this little guy and his beautiful song. You can see and hear him on YouTube at YouTube - Canary Sings Michigan Fight Song or Google Canary Sings Michigan Fight Song. I do so want him to get well so he will sing again. I never knew how wonderful canaries were until Cicero appeared and became part of our life.

[Snazy]

Originally Posted by Monica

I don't know much about softbills, but my first thoughts were actually not a bacterial infection but air sac mites, which fits the description you provided....

Lady Gouldian Finch .com - Air Sac Mites

Monica--I am so new to the bird world that I feel I must rely on the treatment prescribed by the avian vet. She specializes in small birds. She said that TX for air sac mites is really hard on canaries and preferred to treat his symptoms as bacterial. When I first became concerned I Googled everything I could re: respiratory illnesses in canaries. Of course air sac mites appeared at the top of the list. I have read everything I can find including Lady Gouldian's article on air sac mites. Someone has recommended a product I read about called SCATT. Since Cicero is an "only bird" and I clean his cage religiously, I am trying to figure out how he might have gotten air sac mites. Bottom line: when do I give up on the antibiotics and pursure air sac mite TX.

Thank you so much for your reply.

[Monica]

You should speak with your avian vet about that. There's also Ivermectin and perhaps one or two other meds that have been used, and have been used successfully. However, with that in mind, I've never cared for softbills before, although I do find their voice amazing!

I suppose if your avian vet isn't very helpful you could look into a second opinion, if it may help.

[CanaryLover]

My canary Chipper had the same problem! I took him to the vet and because he didn't know exactly if it was a respitatory infection or air sac mites he treated him for both. He treated him with Baytril. I had to give him daily doses with a syringe in his mouth (not sticking him, just opening his mouth with the needle and shooting it in there) it took about 5 days before he seemed like his old self again! He was treated for two weeks. I believe that it was a respitatory infection and not air sac mites, because Missy my female never showed any symptoms, and they were always together! But I am not sure. He also treated him with Imovec (I'm not sure if that is spelled right) for the air sac mites, at the same time, given the same way. Not an easy task! Which ever it was it worked! Just be patient, and if the Baytril doesn't work, call the doctor and let him know! Chipper was also sitting on his perch kind of slumped over it by the end of the night like he was exahasted from breathing so fast. He was eating just fine through out his whole sickness and seemed to be pretty active, even singing, although less than usual. Good luck, and I hope this helps. It doesn't seem like he is on a very big dose though. Chipper was weighed and then his dose was based on that. His dose was measured in cc's I think. The needles were very little and there wasn't a lot in them, but definetly more than Circero is taking. Good luck again with your little guy!

[Snazy]

Thanks so much for sharing your experience with Chipper. I did call the vet this morning just to let her know that Cicero doesn't seem to be breathing any easier. He still sounds asthmatic. I would be happier treating for both conditions since it is hard to know exactly what is causing the symptoms. I guess I was expecting that by the 7th dose of antibiotics (day 4) I would see/hear some improvement. I know that I am impatient as I hate to see this little guy suffer and want to do whatever I can to help him recover. He has brought such joy to my life.

I will wait to until I hear back from the vet to see what she advises. I have read on a number of sites that people have had success with SCATT so I think I will order some and some bird safe cage cleaner/disinfectant.

I am so glad that Chipper made a full recovery. That gives me hope that Cicero will be singing again soon.

[nixity]

Honestly, to me, Baytril is a "catch all" Rx for vets when it comes to birds showing generic signs of illness.

Did you vet do a fecal on Cicero?
Did she do a crop swab, or anything else that could have been done to test for mites and/or gram negative bacteria? Or did she simply chalk it up to bacterial and give you the Baytril and send you on your way?

I hate to be jaded and pessimistic, but with 40+ Gouldians my experience with vets has been nothing short of pointless.
Most of them can't definitively diagnose anything, and I've been told by numerous friends and breeders that even issuing necropsies isn't worth the money because 99% of the time they come back "inconclusive."

Canaries, next to Gouldians, are extremely susceptible to ASMs for some reason.
A lot of Canary breeders follow a preventative/maintenance cycle for preventing ASMs in their birds.

I am not sure how long you've had Cicero, but it is entirely possible you bought the bird infected and only now are noticing symptoms due to the life cycle and process of infection.
It is when the mites are building up that you start to see/hear the symptoms - this clicking, wheezing, squelching sound usually accompanied by coughing.

A bacterial respiratory infection would almost always be accompanied by some sort of discharge of the eyes/mouth/nose/etc..
Like - sneezing with discharge coming out, etc.

There are a few different options when it comes to treating/preventing air sac mites:

1. SCATT (Moxidectin) - 1 drop applied directly on the skin at the nape of the neck or under the wing. It is imperative that if treating for the first time you repeat the treatment in 3 weeks to make sure you've gotten all of the mites in the different life cycles. Then as maintenance the recommended repeat treatments are either every 3, 4 or 6 months - with only one bird, I should think every 6 months would be sufficient.

2. Ivermectin (In the form of either Iverlux or S76) - this is a water soluble treatment that is geared towards individuals with large flocks of birds where it is inconvenient to have to catch and dose each bird individually.

If you are just treating one bird - I personally find the SCATT to be more reliable/effective.

However - if the bird is heavily infested, you have to be really careful treating with any method, because as the mites die, the bird has to be able to cough them up/swallow them - and if they are heavily infested sometimes the treatment itself is what kills them because the mites die in large numbers and essentially suffocate or choke the bird to death.

I have never personally had this problem but I have also never had a bird heavily infested.
I have always used SCATT on incoming birds and do not find it to be extraordinarily harsh on them.
The only catch is the for SCATT, birds must be at least 6 months of age.

Hope this info helps.

[Snazy]

No definitive test were done on Cicero. She did not suggest a fecal, a crop swab, or anything else. Because he is an "only bird", she felt it was unlikely that he would have ASMs. She thought it was better to start with Baytril and add other meds if needed. I didn't think Cicero was any better yesterday so I called her back and she prescribed .5 ml of Ivermectin in addition to the 14 doses of Baytril. I am to give him a weekly dose of Ivermectin orally until it is gone.

Cicero is such a little trooper. I am sure you know how canaries hate to be handled. Well, once I catch him, he just lays in my hand looking at me with his wonderful little eyes and gobbles up his medication. It is sort of like he knows that I am trying to make him well.

Cicero came into our life rather serendipitously. And, he might have been infested before we rescued him. You see, he just appeared at our bird feeder one day last August. We knew he must have escaped from someone because he had a leg band. We didn't know how to catch him so the first night he slept on the a light fixture on our deck. The next morning he was still there but so was a pile of raccoon poop, right under the light fixture. I knew I had to rescue him. A friend gave me a small cage and other friend loaned me a butterfly net. I waited until dark and planned to catch him after he perched on the light for the night. Long story short, the raccoons came back before I was able to net him, we battled the raccoons by pelleting them with ice cubes, Cicero got scared and flew away into the night. Happy ending...the raccoons left but then returned. I noticed they were staring at something on the window ledge. There was little Cicero. My husband squeezed out the window, butterfly net in hand and rescued the little guy.

So, we are not sure how long he had been living on his own. I do know that he ate at our feeder for two days with the wild birds and had been spotted by other neighbors 3-4 days earlier. Is it possible that he picked up ASMs 10 months ago and the symptoms have now just manifested?

We just love this little guy and miss his wonderful song. I am grateful for all the good feedback I have gotten from this forum. Thank you so much for responding.