Cockatiel baby help

[Elisabeth]

Hi

Two weeks ago a friends friend asked if I could take care of her cockatiel baby that had been abandoned (5 days old) for two days. A close relative had just passed away and she had to go somewhere urgently. I said yes because it was so urgent (she told me 1am and she was going away 8am). She droped of the little one and showed me how to feed him.
Now afterwards I can tell that she was totally inexperienced.
Well I took care of him the best I could and when she came back she didnt want him... anyway I new that he certainly would die if I gave him back (I heard that no chick had survived that long in her care...).
She told me too feel the temperature on my arm, and that he didnt need heating. I immidiatly bougt two termometers, one for the brooder (heating pad under a plastic aquarium) and one for the formula. Well... I tried my best and kept researching for how to take care of him.
I found out that he wasnt fed by the parents, and that he hadnt grown when I got him (poor guy). The woman I got him from overstretched the crop (a lot).
The crop worked quite fine until one day when his crop didnt want to empty completely so I gave him some water and waited, when it was empty I gave him papaya. It didnt work.
Now he is very "alert" and beggs for food al lot. Well, the food comes out but too slowly. He has been "sick" for a few days :( now finally hes gaining weight again. He should be 26 (!!) days but looks like 12 days (but is much thinner than normal babies)
I feed him about 7 ml/feeding 4-5 times a day. He now weights 35 gram and has wings and a crest and very small cheeks. Hes brooder is 31 C.
Ok so now I feed him and suck up the rest with a sort-of-latex tube. If i give him 6 ml, I take out about 2-3.
I asked a friend to give me Nystatin (for yeast treatment) and it didnt work. I got the dosage from Harrisson and Harrison (a webpage). Should I give it a try again?
The thing is... we dont have experienced avian vets here in Sweden :(. I called them and they didnt know anything about cockatiel babies.

Please help

[Elisabeth]

I forgot one thing:
I give him NutriBird A21 (she bought it for him) and I feed him with a spoon.

One more thing. We in Sweden do NOT handfeed cockatiels or other small parrots, so no help from breeders.

[PyscoFalcon]

Sounds like he has slow crop.
Have a good read of this http://www.kaytee.com/ask_the_expert...and_disorders/

[Elisabeth]

Originally Posted by PyscoFalcon

Sounds like he has slow crop.
Have a good read of this http://www.kaytee.com/ask_the_expert...and_disorders/

Thanks for the info.
How long does a normal crop take to empty?

[Tiki]

Elisabeth, we have a few excellent cockatiel breeders here-Joel and Dayna especially. Until they come online and see this, do a search at the top of the screen and look for their posts. They are always very helpful.

[Elisabeth]

Thank you Tiki. I will wait until tomorrow (its 11.20 pm for me) and hopefully I can read some good advice by then.

If I where to go to a "normal" vet, how can they determine whats wrong? As I wrote, handfeeding cockatiels is really unusual (as well as wing-clipping them ). Therefor maybe someone have a tip for a good medicine I can buy from a vet if someone experienced can determine whats wrong with him. Please tell me how I can help the diagnose (films, pictures etc)

This is a picture of him two days after I got him (7 days old)

He couldnt hold his head up then, the first day he looked like hi still was in the egg (egg-shaped) and his feathers where sticky so I had to clean him so he became "fluffy".

Maybe I should have put him down a long time ago, but I just couldnt he is such a survivor.

[Elisabeth]

He is almost definitley stunted I feel so sorry for him! But I have tried my very best.

Yesterday
http://www.zoonen.com/res/user/99446...95_orig_SE.jpg

I know its irresponsible for an inexperienced person to start handfeeding, but all I wanted was to give him a second chance.

[Elisabeth]

Originally Posted by Joel

Elizabeth.....You asked earlier how many hrs does it take for a normal crop to empty. Even though it varies some according to age etc.etc., I would say roughly about 4 (normally), if it was filled to proper limit & isn't overly stretched.

Your friend should NOT be allowing breeding if there is no one around anywhere to help in these kind of emergencies. She needs to separate the sexes. Try & get that through her head please......Since you seem to be having luck keeping this baby alive for so long, maybe there is no real problem requiring meds?.....You seem to be able to snap pics whenever necessary so could you snap one of a close-up front view & a side view just after you fill crop - asap. Then another one four hrs. later before removing or adding anything. Could you snap a pic of prepared formula also and state temps. in F degrees and explain consistency if it doesn't show well in the pic? I have never used that specific brand of formula so really can't comment on that. Any chance you may be able to get some Kaytee Exact over there?...Are you positive formula is fresh/not spoiled? Are you making up fresh before each feeding? Where are you storing it?......How are you sterilizing and where are you keeping evacuation tube between uses?......Just asking these questions to double check things, hope ya don't mind........I'm confused as to why no one over there handfeeds cockatiels or other small birds, hard for me to believe that (maybe you just can't find them)?....... Did you ask in person or call as many pet shop owners as you can for help or to refer you to a local breeder/handfeeder? Did you ask the vets - both Avian and regular to help you locate a handfeeder?...... The process and problems are basically the same for all parrots so if someone is qualified feeding larger birds, then it only stands to reason that they can help you with your problem child?

I would get that Nystatin if ya can and have on hand if needed, not gonna make a diff. though if he doesn't have a yeast problem in the crop but keep some available anyway.

I agree that you should NOT have put him down. As long as you are safely emptying left-over formula from the crop & as long as he doesn't have a bacterial or fungal infection etc. or get one, then he should make it. You must be extremely careful not to aspirate him and of course not suck into that tube the lining of his esophagus. Best of luck to him and you. I'll try and check back as I can to see if I can possibly help any further, not sure what time difference is between Sweden & here? Our world traveler Tiki can probably enlighten me/us on that.....Later

My babys father flew away and his mother is now sold :(. She has been acting really strange but I guess its all about her personal problems. She is not my friend, I have met her once.

Yesterday (11 pm) I gave him about 7 ml (7 gram) formula and removed 1 ml 7 am. My experience (from the last couple of days) is that it is the last 2 ml that takes a long time to pass.
I follow intructions when mixing the formula (1 formula and 2 water). I boil water (we have very nice water in Sweden) and mix the formula, then wait until the formula is 104-107 F. I weight him afterwards to se how much I have fed him (this morning 6 ml/g). I will take pictures when I go home on my lunchbreak (at 10 GMT). I mix the formula so it is "solid" (it cannot move fron the spoon) then i add some drops so it will run of slowly. I make fresh every feeding, but im not sure the formula is fresh, she gave it to me. It never occured to me that the formula might be old . I will try to find Kaytee.
No noone I have ever heard of handfeed their small parrots, there is no need, they become sweet sweet pets in a few days anyway.
All breeders live in the southern of sweden (500 miles from here) and I dont think theyll accept him anyway. My breeder of senegals (I found out later) just mix the formula a bit and doesnt care about the temperature! Most of the breeders doesnt want to handfeed the babies, the just do it for the money . Cockatiels costs about $60 from a good breeder. They are not handfed but tame.
I store everything on his private desk, cleaned. I just carefully clean everything and then pour boiling water over the things (bleech is bad for this purpose). Should I store it in the freecer instead? Do you think I should buy new hand-feeding formula (any brand) just in case the one I have is old?

What will happen if i suck the esophagus or scratch it? How will I know if I have done it? (Im emptying him before the last and first feeding of the day, more? less?) He is a bit red by the crock in the neck . I will try to take a picture of it. I have prepared the tube too so it sucks up the formula better (without getting stuck). He struggels a lot when Im trying to put the tube i him.

Will you need a film of him or something? Today Ill feed him 7am, 12am(?), 5pm and 11pm. I think that is better for him. Im going away to give a cat medicine at 6pm-7pm but will try to post pictures before that. (I have some troubles with the am-pm thing, hope I got it right)

My friend (who I posted the other question for) lives in the southern of Sweden, near some kind-of experienced breeders. She has never handfed herself.

I have Nystatin in my fridge (about 5 cl) Harrisson and Harrison rekommends 0.1ml/100g(bird) mixed in the formula.

We are GMT+2

[Elisabeth]

Ok this is the news.
Frank got 7 ml at 11pm and had almost 1 ml left at 7am, i sucked it up.
At 7am I fed him 6 ml and this is how he looks at noon:

and this (he looks a bit weird thoug):

I guess its about 1ml left this time too.

At noon I fed him 5 ml (then he got cold and I had to put him back). I didnt take out the "leftovers".
This is how he looks like when I have fed him:



And this is his food:

The expiery date is 11/2005 so it should be fresh.

I will take a picture of him at 5pm so you can see how much is left then. Is it neccesary to suck up the food every time?

Any suggestions of improvement in his care is appreciated. You are just trying to helm him and me :). Thank you very much.

[Joel]

Good Morning Elisabeth........Sounds like the crop is probably overstretched because it takes so long for last 2 cc's/ml to empty. Maybe you could fashion a crop bra like Yeuda has for his Rose? Otherwise it means (as you know) emptying that crop once a day at least, better more than once IME though. I would put a small drop of the warmed Nystatin into the crop, after you empty it next time, BEFORE you add any formula (I would do that everyday). IF you see or suspect yeast at all then I would add some to the formula also.

I would suggest you throw away any syringe you may be currently using and use a new one. I store mine in the freezer immediately after I rinse it out well, along with my S.S. gavage metal feeding instrument. To be on the safe side I would purchase asap some new formula (Kaytee for Baby Birds) if ya can get it. If ya have to continue using the same formula that you already have, smell it, one can usually smell if it is bad or rancid IME.

Well, if ya rip or tear the lining of the esophagus the food can get between the lining and the crop wall and an infection will occur and the baby will most likely die so watch closely the crop wall and make sure you don't see it being pinched or sucked into the tube you are using. Actually you should also be flushing the crop with warm LRS after evacuating it BUT very dangerous if ya aren't extremely careful so maybe best to just get out all ya possibly can and add the Nystatin if you don't see any obvious signs of yeast. It is kinda tricky to hold a struggling Tiel while stretching the neck properly and inserting the tube by ones-self. However, if you have no one at home to help you and if you have no qualified outside assistance, then ya have to do your best to do what needs to be done to save a life.....I find it a lil easier to put the formula in a glass shallow dessert like cup and add room temp. water to it while mixing and then setting vessel into a pot of water on the stove that has just been reduced from boiling. I continue to mix formula with spoon as the vessel sits there until the proper/desired consistency. Just seems easier to mix that way and formula doesn't get over-cooked as easily IME.....I wouldn't be too concerned about getting the temp. of formula perfect, as long as it feels slightly warm to you on the underside of your wrist, that should be fine for a baby his age. (Just be positive not hot enough to burn).

If you have a vet supply warehouse in your town by any chance, you can probably find the S.S. gavage instruments there or you might want to order on line to have on hand in the future for any needed feeding or medicating emergencies/procedures. You would want to order a #14 & a #12 for tiels and I even suggest a #16 for the new hatchlings in an emergency.

Anyway, sounds like you are doing great, the lil guy should make it.
Thanks for answering the questions asked in detail and thanks in advance for posting the pics later when ya can, may possibly help some? :)