Hybridized

[kellywess]

Nature has a way huh? In my opinion if it wasnt meant to be nature wouldnt allow it to happen.

[Oviraptor]

Personally, I think the galatiel is cute. I wouldn't mind owning one myself.

[Tombstone]

The problem with hybrids is that they are sometimes sold as purebreds. I have heard of Mullucans being bred with U2s and babies being sold as purebred Mullucans.

Besides, who is to say that hybrids won't make it back into the wild gene pool. It happened to wild ducks when we started intentionally breeding domestic breeds.

[kellywess]

Hybrid Macaws have been photographed in the wild. I think alot of people dont take into consideration that it is a "species" thing. Macaws are Macaws...whether they are Blue & Gold, Red Fronted, Military, Scarlet whatever... they are still Macaws. Cockatoos are Cockatoos. Its the same SPECIES. This "hybrid" thing happens in the wild alot more frequently than people want to believe. Its nothing new. Its just becoming more popular and spoken about. Its also a topic that can be argued about all day long.

[fluffy_stitch]

well if hybridization was really so common in the wild then wouldnt there be only a one general type of macaw or one general type of cockatoo instead of all the different varieties?? but your right,could argue for it or against it all day.

[rockybird]

It was an accident so no harm no foul (or fowl?).

But if this bird were to get into the wild, it would contaminate the genetic pool of the bird species it bred with, assuming it is fertile. The other reason it is frowned upon is that bird breeders want to maintain a pure population of species as pets. If something should happen to a species, it would be easier to reintroduce that species back into the wild. Humans have already messed the world up enough as it is.

My conure was sold to me as a gcc, but in fact is a hybrid gcc/maroon belly. I didnt know when I bought him, and wouldnt have cared. He is my little buddy. But I would never breed him and his breeders have already diluted the genetic pool.

[anbrownucsd]

The most common reason why there are 'military macaws' and 'scarlet macaws' is that their populations are separated from each other by natural barriers of all forms.

Obviously, the reason why these species diverged and developed different colors in the first place is because they were separated by natural barriers and so different traits, characteristics and colors evolved, like all other animals.

In ten thousand years if macaws still exist at all there will most likely be some species that are still similar (but different) to the species that exist today, there will be some that have mixed with each other for a variety of natural reasons and there will be entirely new traits, characteristics and colorations that have evolved. This is the simple process of speciation dictated by the theories of evolution.

I think that it is entirely ridiculous to say that we need to keep the 'gene pools' pure, realistically the important thing is that the gene pool of ARA 'macaw' is pure, it is completely irrelevant what the coloration is. "Macaws" would need to be released into the wild if "Macaws" were to go extinct. The hybrid macaws would fill the same natural species niches as any other species of macaw.

Lets be real, the only reason to keep the gene pools 'pure' are so that we humans can continue to enjoy 'the scarlet macaw' and 'the blue and gold macaw'. It is the same reason why people do not want to buy mutts, and instead want to buy a 'golden retriever', but this human activity is BAD for the animals... it is no wonder that golden retrievers have so many health problems - they have been inbred to keep their gene pools pure FOR HUMANS. Macaws are all the same genus, and as nature changes and puts different pressures on their populations they will evolve. There is nothing inherently wrong with breeding hybrid macaws in captivity for this reason.

Lets remember though, it is only natural to breed birds inside of their GENUS... this means that a hycinth which is from ANODORHYNCHUS genus, should not be bred with a military macaw from the ARA genus. This would probably never happen in nature. However a military macaw, scarlet macaw and blue and gold macaw are all from the same Genus, and speciation is mainly dependent on coloration.

Those who stand on either side of this debate are arguing for the benefit of humans. If somebody could please explain to me why the dillution of the 'blue and gold macaw' gene line is bad for the bird I would love to hear it. The truth is that HUMANS don't want to lose the beauty of the Blue and Gold Macaw, this is just as much to satisfy human desire than people who breed hybrids in capitivity. Both groups are trying to push human desire onto the populations of birds. Hybridization does occur naturally in the wild, I found several sources which report this.

I will note, though, that there is some evidence that hybridization can cause problems for the animals. For example, when you breed a horse with a donkey (they are from the same genus) the mule will not be able to reproduce. As far as my evidence shows, however, there are no health problems that are noted in hybridized macaws, and hybridized African Greys. The birds are fine, this is a human desire to preserve a species that nature simply would not recognize.

[rockybird]

"Lets be real, the only reason to keep the gene pools 'pure' are so that we humans can continue to enjoy 'the scarlet macaw' and 'the blue and gold macaw'. It is the same reason why people do not want to buy mutts, and instead want to buy a 'golden retriever'" This is utterly ridiculous. You certainly cannot compare an argument about wild natural parrot species to "golden retrievers" and mutts, as these are not present naturally in the wild. I dont see packs of datsuns running around breeding and evolving. They are of human selective breeding. This argument is about the potential to permanently alter the genetic makeup of a natural species that would otherwise not interbreed.

In my opinion, it has nothing to do with man enjoying the beauty of a natural bird. Science isnt based on man's interpretation of the beauty of an animal. This is about maintaining the genetic makeup of a species. If we didnt care about this, why the search for the Spix macaw? I think many would not consider this a beautiful bird. Man has already devastated many natural environments by introducing non-natural species to that habitat and driving out the native species.

"In ten thousand years if macaws still exist at all there will most likely be some species that are still similar (but different) to the species that exist today, there will be some that have mixed with each other for a variety of natural reasons and there will be entirely new traits, characteristics and colorations that have evolved. This is the simple process of speciation dictated by the theories of evolution." If you introduce a hybrid species, man will have affected evolution of that species. In addition, if rain forest devastation wipes out a species, than what? The species will be gone. If some breeders preserve some hybrids is that good enough? Do you not care that the pure species is permamantly gone?

"The hybrid macaws would fill the same natural species niches as any other species of macaw." What natural species niches? Hybrids are not a natural species, so obviously this new introduced species will compete/interbreed with the natural species. There are no niches waiting to be occupied by a hybrid, which was never supposed to exist in the first place.

If this is your stance, than I suppose you dont care if man drives a species to extinction or if we replace all wild bison and buffalo with farm cows. Or if this cockatoo/cockatiel mix gets lose and outbreeds the living cockatoo and cockatiel species.

[kellywess]

I dont think there are "any" rules to bonding in the wild. Flocks often have couples of the same sex. Parrots usually bond for life. So those of the same sex who have bonded to one another may go their whole lives without successfully breeding.

[Freedomoflight]

I just want to put in a friendly reminder that while lively discussions are welcomed here, please keep your posts cool and collected. Thanks!