M2, laid and egg and plucking

[birdyland]

Hi Kim,
I want to personally thank you for joining the birdboard forums, we're glad to have you here.

Niki, my M2 is about 10.5 years old. I got her when she was 4 - she was attention neglected, and had plucked her chest and legs clean. Within 6 months of being with me she was fully feathered and we hadn't had any problems until about 2 months ago.

She started plucking again when she started to be very hormonal and "nesting". I increased protine and calcium in her diet - not drastically, but a piece of chicken here, and shell included scrambled eggs there. A week ago, she laid an egg; her first.

I have been limiting her daylight, they are up at dawn and down at dark, the birds have their own, quiet, dark room. (dawn in san diego ~6 dusk about 6). I've also increased the number of baths she gets, she hates them and they stress her out, so again I didn't want to be drastic, but I've upped it to twice a week.

I've been keeping attention levels steady and predictable. I've replenished her refillable toy, and added some "shreaders rope" to the toys(the woven, flat strap of some sort of palm leaf).

Is this something that you think will pass? Related to the egg/hormones? Is there anything I more I can do? Supplements I can give?

A breeder I know mentioned feeding a tablet of over the counter MSM (see blurb below, write ups also say "pet safe" whatever that means) in water along with Chondritin/Glucosamine. I know that it is given to horses and dogs... Have you had any experience with this therepy?

Vet says that Niki is otherwise heathy.... and is at the same loss that I am. Please, any advice you can give will be greatly appreciated. She isn't plucking as much as she was when I got her, but she now has a bare spot a bit bigger than a silver dollar on one side of her chest, and is shredding the feathers on her legs very minimally. All other plumage seems to be in great condition, and her skin does not appear to be damaged. New feathers are left alone along the blood shaft, but destroyed on the ends.

Thank you in advance. Dana




"For general use, MSM - Methylsulfonylmethane - should be taken internally as a food (dietary) supplement. MSM is necessary for collagen synthesis: skin, hair and nails. MSM keeps cells from becoming rigid. MSM softens tissue ("the beauty mineral"), and is believed to relieve stress, asthma, arthritis, inflammation, constipation, candida, detoxify the body and increase blood circulation, reduce muscle cramps, and back pain, help muscles to heal, increases energy, alertness, mental calmness, and the ability to concentrate. MSM scavenges free radicals, relieves allergies to food and pollens, helps the liver produce choline, controls acidity in stomach and ulcers, coats intestinal tract so parasites lose ability to hang on, helps with hypersensitivity to drugs, increases body’s ability to produce insulin, is important for carbohydrate metabolism, and speeds wound healing."

[KimBear]

As for the MSM, it's often used with glucosamine and chondritin, mainly as joint therapy, since most of those other claims aren't supported by medical evidence. My husband and I both take supplements with all 3 ingredient for our mild osteoarthritis. I assume that other than dosage adjustment, there's no problem using it with the bird, but be sure your vet's on board with it. The vet I used to work for used it and the other 2 supplements for horses and dogs with joint problems. Whether or not products would help with skin and feathers, I don't know, and I don't know if birds would have any special concerns when taking them.

Most of the claims made in the text you provided should be approached with a healthy dose of skeptisism. Can MSM really do ALL that stuff? I doubt it. A lot of the claims that come after "...and is believed to relieve..." are not likely to be true. Since MSM is a supplement, and not considered a drug by the FDA, the statements haven't been evaluated by the FDA, and so the manufacturers can say just about whatever they want as long as they put in that little disclaimer. Look at the label. If those claims are on the product label, it's there.

That being said, it's not likely to hurt, and it may help, but again, make sure you work closely with your vet to moniter any possible side effects. Anyone or anything with a shellfish allergy, for example, should not take glucosamine because it's derived from shells.

Now, on to the feather picking: It sounds like you're providing the right environment, and that perhaps her picking is a breeding cycle thing. Many parrots pick, especially around their legs, when they're feeling broody, and if your cockatoo laid an egg, that's a sure sign she's feeling broody!

I suggest distracting her from all things related to breeding by giving her more things to do that have nothing to do with nest building, sitting on eggs, etc. Play games with her and increase her opportunity to exercise. Implement some trick training to keep her mind occupied. This focuses on things you do want her to do. To address the stuff you don't want her to do: Don't let her keep her shredded toy pieces because she may be tempted to make a "nest". Don't pet her on her back near the base of her tail, and if you see that she's rubbing herself on something and making happy little clucking noises, just ignore it. If you want, you can distract her by giving her something else to do but otherwise don't make a big deal over it. You don't want her to think she'll get extra attention by engaging in "meaningful rubbing".

See if this helps, and give it a couple of weeks. She may be crabbier than normal and more stubborn, so be patient, but don't relax any off the rules you've set for her. If it's going to happen, this kind of thing usually only comes once a year.

[birdyland]

Thank you Kim!

I am aware of the supplement vs drug aspect. I'm a skeptical person when it comes to taking ANYTHING - So I didn't believe everything the blurb said, just wanted your take on it. I will work with the vet, and I think I will try a very small dose to see what happens. The person that told me about this swears she's seen it work on several plucking birds. I don't care if Niki is Pretty; she wasn't pretty when I took her on. I just care if she is healty and happy. We've had so many, successful, non-plucking years under our belts now that it breaks my heart to see her start up again, and I don't want to see it get any worse. I really hope it is, as you say, a result of her feeling broody!

I have someone at the house 95% of the time when I am not there, so I will have someone observe her while trying the new supplement therepy. I'll let you know if it is successful.

Mating behavior in either of my birds, since they are so bonded to me, is treated with a calm walk back to, and some time out, on a play stand. Since they are both gals, I never want to encourage egg-laying and all the problems that can come of it.

She's got my patience, even through the heightened screaming levels that have come of this whole situation... Thank you for the tips on keeping her busy, this may also help curb the yelling and the beak tapping too, which she has also regressed into along with the plucking...

I have another question for a different aspect of this situation please:

Niki's cage is falling apart. Since she is a petite M2, I plan on giving her Tiki's (my macaw's) cage, it is the same size as Niki's current cage, but a different style/color. Tiki's new, bigger, cage is to arrive any day now, and I will be making the switch as soon as it does.

The question is.... is there anything I can do to protect her from further stress during this cage change? I don't want to make her plucking worse.

She is familiar with the cage. Although she has not been in it, I have had it since before Niki came to live with me. It has always been Tiki's cage as far as she is concerned.

I plan on cleaning it out, and putting one of her perches (specifically her favorite swing perch) into the cage. After Niki is comfortable with that, I was going to let her watch as I add the rest of her things to her "new" cage. I will not let her see me removing them from her old cage.

Should I also be doing something like adding treats to her "new" bowls? (her current dishes will not fit Tiki's cage). Any other tips would be greatly appreciated.

I would love to do this change more gradually, but Niki's current cage just hit a turning point all of a sudden last week and two bars popped off. (I ordered Tiki's new cage the same day I discovered the popped off bars - she needs a bigger one, so a new bigger cage solves both problems because her current cage still has many good years in it). Niki's cage is going in the trash as soon as I have removed her things from it!

Again, thank you in advance! I really appreciate your advice.

[KimBear]

I think your approach to changing the cages is good. Having her familiar toys and things in there should help. If you could let her play on the new cage for a while, that may help, too. Maybe she'll even venture in on her own. If she sees that Tiki is in a new cage, she may get a better sense that the macaw's not going to come after her for intruding.

If she seems reluctant to use her new bowls, let her see you put some of her favorite foods in them.

Often parrots will surprise us at how well they will adapt to certain situations. Sometimes just when we think they'll freak out, they do just fine. Of course, the opposite is true as well!

Good luck, and good for you for replacing the worn-out cage. Too many folks would just try to get by because they don't want to spend the extra bucks, and it puts the bird in a risky situation when the cage is unsafe.

[birdyland]

Thank you! I will let her explore and see how it goes. I will definitely let her see that Tiki has a new cage too... I agree it will probably make her feel more comfortable that Tiki isn't going to go attack her. (They are best buddies at a distance - friends - but extremely jealous friends when it comes to my attention - I can hold both at once, but they are never allowed to touch eachother or perch together)

I whole heartedly agree with what you said about change!!! "Often parrots will surprise us at how well they will adapt to certain situations. Sometimes just when we think they'll freak out, they do just fine. Of course, the opposite is true as well!
"

Thank you again for your time!