?'s Nansun

[Freedomoflight]

Originally Posted by hollyhawkz

I am wondering if it was a mistake..... I noticed that now she is also selling Suns for $650. and the Nansuns for only $450. And no Nandays at all??? so it might have been an error.

No, that is most definitely a hybrid. Unless you are meaning the breeding of the two? I don't see how it could be a mistake- 2 birds, 1 cage, obviously the right conditions. As a breeder she should have been able to recognize the signs and intervene before anything happened.

[ROYJOY]

Hybridization is, in fact, evolution. to much energy is being wasted on both side of this coin.

[hollyhawkz]

You may have a point Roy, I was told by a wild bird ornthologist that cross breeds happen in the wild for varoius reasons.
I don't want to support something unethical, but the runt of the litter has kinda pulled on my heartstrings. We have not made up our mind yet... we may still get another black capped conure. We are taking our time to make sure whatever little winged angle we get will fit in because I would never want to have to rehome. It would kill me and all I stand for. I used to do dog rescue work.... need I say more?

[DarwinTheSun]

Originally Posted by ROYJOY

Hybridization is, in fact, evolution. to much energy is being wasted on both side of this coin.

No it is not. Hybrids that occur in the wild are naturally selected against. You are correct that energy is being wasted though.

[Monica]

Can't help ya as far as choosing the nansun over a black cap, however, in regards to hybrization, I suggest reading this thread....

Hybridized

Dwarvin, I suggest you read my reply in that thread as well, page 3, first post....

[ROYJOY]

Not "all" hybrids in the wild are selected against. some dont thrive, and die. some, seveal generation, hybs become sterile. some are successful and go on to improve the new breed and/or species. nature decides what will be successful. its true that hybrids play a much smaller role in natural selection than mutation, but there is alot more hybridization going on out there, than in captivity. humans play a small roll in this, and some are careful about it getting out of hand, and some are not. thats a natural balance of sorts. the human is in fact a product of natural selection, and any thing he does is natural, incuding hybridizing other species. what if an other form, evolved higher inteligents before humans, and decided not to let primates hybridize or mutate, and killed off those products. well there wouldnt be any humans to mess up every thing else. if we nuke the planet or make it too poison to live on, well then the planet will change again, and on, and on. some of us dont want this to happen, and are trying to change the world for the better. and some just dont care what happens after they are gone. nature will make the final decision. its going to happen whether you like it or not. some folks like hybrids, and some dont. its not worth stressing, and getting high blood presure about. live and let live.

[DarwinTheSun]

This has become a strange conversation about biology, but now I must reply. I am having a difficult time understanding you, and I think you are confusing hybridization (successful reproduction between two species) with mutation (change in the DNA sequence).

It is NOT true that hybrids are more common in nature. In fact they are very rare. They are somewhat more common in plants, because plants have more adaptable chromosomes than do animals. But to say that they are more common is just completely wrong. You are correct that nature decides (that is natural selection), and the majority of times hybrids will be selected against. Even if they could survive and be fertile, they will undoubtedly have a difficult time finding a mate (that goes for plants and animals) because they will not be attractive to either parental species. This is called a hybrid valley.

I dont understand your argument about humans. Sorry the wording is confusing. And I hope you are not implying that humans have come about because of some hybridization?!?! Mutation yes, but there is no evidence of hybridization in our evolutionary past. I am not sure nuking the planet has anything to do with hybrids either...

[mybirdbutters]

I deleted a bunch of stuff that didn't really matter and was too long.

I want to say that even if that person is correct and hybridization is good for animals (I'm not sure that's true and I really don't think that's what evolution is), we are talking about captive bred birds here.

We can control the fate of a species because we can breed it in captivity. "Natural selection" is irrelevant in this case. Just because it might happen in the wild sometimes, doesn't mean it's okay for us to hybridize all our breeders just to come up with some new exotic hybrid to make a buck. Especially since evolution occurs to make a species more successful, and we are breeding hybrids purely for looks. It's kind of disgusting to claim that we're doing it to help the animals when obviously we just want exotic new colors.

WE are nature in this case and WE are making the selection, so I think it's a cop out to sit back and say, "Oh well natural selection, if X species of parrot dies out because we used all our breeders to make hybrids, that's just 'evolution' the newer hybridized version is just as good or better" I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth but that's what it sounds like when you defend intentionally hybridizing endangered species. These are not wolves or tigers or gorillas. These are animals that pick ONE mate, FOR LIFE. You can't breed them with one type and then go back to breeding them with a bird of their same species.

I have seen this subject turn into nasty fights on the internet, so I'll bow out. All I wanted to do is clarify that whoever is correct in the little debate going on above, it's irrelevant because we have taken nature/evolution out of the equation. Now, WE are playing god.

Whoops I almost forgot. As much as I personally object to purchasing hybrids (encouraging breeders to sell more), I must admit that bird is stunning. Look at that cranberry splash on his head!

[xafsmom]

Not that this involves a Nanday, but Voren has an interesting article regarding hybridization in gold-cap/jenday/sun conures that I found interesting. It's worth the read. The Gold-Capped, Jenday and Sun Conures

I think you should get that beautiful little nansun. Honestly, it's a pet, you're not breeding it so if he's pulling your heartstrings, let it happen. It's win/win. The bird gets a loving home, you get a loving bird. Both nandays and suns are affectionate birds and quite loyal, so you'll have so many years of happiness together. Don't be put off just because he's a hybrid. If you were seeking breeding stock, I'd say different, but this is a PET. Go with your heart.

I just recently took in a few cherry-head conure x sun conure babies for hand-feeding as a favour for a breeder friend. The breeder bought the pair as they were, and the female laid eggs pretty soon after. She'll be re-pairing the two, but ended up with these little hybrids. So, she's giving them away to people who promise to keep them only as pets. Do I respect that breeder? Absolutely. She had a situation out of her control and is responsibly fixing it.

My daughter - who seriously does not need another bird (She has two suns and Tigo, our Macaw is her best buddy), but it was love at first sight between them. They connected so much, it's like the little hybrid is mind-linked with her lol. I let her have the hybrid, because in the end, it's about the love. Hybrids deserve it too.

[xafsmom]

Originally Posted by DarwinTheSun

And I hope you are not implying that humans have come about because of some hybridization?!?!

Hah! You haven't met my ex-husband!


/snicker

Sorry, I couldn't help that. ;)