NEW TO BIRDBOARD! Questions on feather chewing, bug control and non-stick cookware

[Kylesmom]

HI BIRD LOVERS!!

My whole page got erased because it said I didn't have a title and it did!

I'm from phx AZ. I'm the proud mom of KYLE, a 15yr old female Umbrella Cockatoo. An abused, neglected rescue, feather chewer and still hater of men, but working at that! She is finally learning to play basketball, and 20oz plastic bottle hockey/bottle toss and chase! ( I LOVE THE WADDLE RUN)

She is a junk food junkie. I'm now cooking her meals of rices and types of beans, the only fruits, orange and grapes. She prefers hemp and safflower. I think I tried EVERY cereal. She wastes them. WILL starve and is underweight. I have to force her to eat. She would rather be with me 24/7 and would love to sleep in bed snuggling me.

I will re-type my intro later. I have to go to the dr appt. I'm disabled so she has become my best friend. I'm an animal rights activist. Kyle is starting her own page at Kyle | MySpace.com. I just started it. There will be tons if info, links and petition links world-wide to things I think we should all be aware of.

I have a HUGE problem with GRAIN BEETLES, flour and confused are the worst. Carpet and drugstore beetles and on occasion INDIAN MOTHS. I have done all Ican think of. I have 24yr old carpet I am trying to get rid of. Hope that helps. Outside bug guy said they are also coming in from the massive beehive in my roof, eating dead pupa and honey! I also worry about poison around my guinea pigs, cats and dogs. I do animal rescues and foster too.



I believe I have tried everything to stop Kyle's feather chewing. It seems to be a comfort thing for her, similar to thumb sucking. She won't do it when she is out with me, she has GREATLY improved in the 2 1/2 yrs we have been together. The next 2 things the vet said were, sweater, or flight suit, but I'm scared she will get worse with her finally growing primarys and tail feathers. A collar, which I know she'd hate. I can barely bathe her, she thinks I'm murdering her, spray bottles were used as punishment by one of her three past owners to get her to be quiet, when you hear the conditions she was found in, you will all want the address~ I had a hard time holding myself back physically and verbally. I'm just happy I got all the birds OUT. :)
Prozac has been suggested. Anyone have any luck? She seems to do it to get my attention, which has never worked, I don't punish or acknowlegde it at all. I don't believe in that. Parrots are too smart sometimes. I found out she could even pick her padlocks by listening to the clicks. After her third nighttime escape and plucking HER off my husband's back, I discovered keylocks! She still hates men, but they get along great if she is caged. They have nightly tummy rubs now! She has not bitten me in a year and 1/2. Boy do I have scars! She is improving. She loves me too much, probably, and it's mutual! They call them the VELCRO BIRD for a reason! She is the best thing to ever happen to me. I don't recommend them to anyone who dosen't have the time they require. If you do. They give so much love!

Last question. PLEASE remind everyone. NON-STICK cookware can be deadly to parrots! I am even confused between HARD ANODIZED ALUMINUM and HARD ANODIZED. Get stainless steel. If anyone can clear all the confusion on this, please do. I got an e-mail from another bird place about yet another feathered friends death, I can't imagine how many just wound up on the ground for seemingly no reason. I would feel awful if mine died simply because this isn't widely known. I can't use the brand name that kills. I did read the short thread on it here though. It still seemed a bit confusing.

THANKS FOR THE GREAT SITE!
I look forward to hearing from any of you!
SINCEREST BEST WISHES AND HAPPY HEALTHY BIRDS!
LAUREN AND KYLE

[Kylesmom]

There was an error with Kyles animal rights page. it should be
Kyle | MySpace.com

Thanks and if you are on myspace, feel free to add her! Still working on the page though!
~L~

[Monica]

She is a junk food junkie. I'm now cooking her meals of rices and types of beans, the only fruits, orange and grapes. She prefers hemp and safflower. I think I tried EVERY cereal. She wastes them. WILL starve and is underweight. I have to force her to eat.
Check out the following post for ideas on food
Bird Safe Fresh Foods & Toxic Food Lists + Sprouts
And check out the Feeding Feathers yahoo group for a "plucker's" diet

Have you tried feeding her fresh foods first thing in the morning with no other foods available? Have you tried making/buying foraging toys and adding in food? What about skewers? Large pieces of fruits/veggies as well as small? Diced? Sliced? Etc?

I have a HUGE problem with GRAIN BEETLES, flour and confused are the worst. Carpet and drugstore beetles and on occasion INDIAN MOTHS. I have done all Ican think of. I have 24yr old carpet I am trying to get rid of. Hope that helps. Outside bug guy said they are also coming in from the massive beehive in my roof, eating dead pupa and honey! I also worry about poison around my guinea pigs, cats and dogs. I do animal rescues and foster too.
Freeze all of your animals dry food (primarily bird and guinea pig food). Freeze all your grain and flour products as well, for at least 24-48 hours. Any grain/flour type foods repackage in air-tight containers. Clean everywhere. Vacuum everywhere.

Ask the bug-guy if he's got any organic/pet/baby safe bug sprays that can be used within the house, then take all the critters out for a few days (if you can) and allow him to spray inside.

I believe I have tried everything to stop Kyle's feather chewing. It seems to be a comfort thing for her, similar to thumb sucking. She won't do it when she is out with me, she has GREATLY improved in the 2 1/2 yrs we have been together.
What does "everything" entail? Have you done full blood panels? Fecal? Checked for allergies? Tried removing allergy type foods from the diet? Plenty of wooden toys to destroy? Ways to forage?

The next 2 things the vet said were, sweater, or flight suit, but I'm scared she will get worse with her finally growing primarys and tail feathers. A collar, which I know she'd hate.
Sweaters, flight suits, and collars all due the same thing. They are not a cure, they are a preventative. Just because something is prevented doesn't mean it is cured - it can start up at a later time when that deterrent is removed. If the bird has an itch, these deterrents can end up aggravating the bird instead of helping them. Some birds learn to go around collars, and others would just chew through a sweater or flight suit, so sometimes it really doesn't make a difference.

I can barely bathe her, she thinks I'm murdering her, spray bottles were used as punishment by one of her three past owners to get her to be quiet
Spray bottles as punishment work for some birds, while in others it'll terrify them. It scares them because they don't connect the "bad behavior means punishment," although it's most often our faults when they are misbehaving.

Have you tried in the shower? In the tub with a few inches of water? A plant mister? A container of water? A container of water with ice? A container of water with foot toys? A container of water with the vacuum running? In the sink?

Prozac has been suggested. Anyone have any luck?
I don't have any plucker's, but I do have mutilators. One hasn't mutilated herself in several months, while the other only mutilates every now and then. I haven't tried Prozac and it's not a "*major* issue" so I don't currently feel the need to. Others have, and perhaps they can tell you their experiences.

She seems to do it to get my attention, which has never worked, I don't punish or acknowlegde it at all. She loves me too much, probably, and it's mutual! They call them the VELCRO BIRD for a reason!
Although you say you don't reward her with attention for when she plucks, and this is a past issue, could she also be plucking due to too much attention? That is, she gets so used to having you around and gets stressed when you aren't around... if this is the case then she needs to be more independent. If it's not the case, or is not the only cause, then you need to find the other reasons as well... I realize she is a second hand bird so you may never be able to figure it all out, and she may never stop plucking... but you can certainly try your best.

Last question. PLEASE remind everyone. NON-STICK cookware can be deadly to parrots! I am even confused between HARD ANODIZED ALUMINUM and HARD ANODIZED. Get stainless steel. If anyone can clear all the confusion on this, please do. I got an e-mail from another bird place about yet another feathered friends death, I can't imagine how many just wound up on the ground for seemingly no reason. I would feel awful if mine died simply because this isn't widely known. I can't use the brand name that kills. I did read the short thread on it here though. It still seemed a bit confusing.
I must wonder how much of a danger Hard Anodized Aluminum is. We have it and use it. (contains no PTFE - brand name Teflon) I know that others do as well without issues. I would like to know personally if all cases of overheated appliances/cookware included PTFE/PFOA, or if in any cases it did not. I myself have read conflicting information about Hard Anodized Aluminum.

[Kylesmom]

Hi Monica! Thanks SO much for all the advice.

One huge thing I need to mention is...KYLE LAID HER FIRST EGG LAST NIGHT! I am so proud of her. I think it's a wonderful thing because it means she is healthy and happy! Now she is egg laying, should I change her diet any? I supplement with a water vitamin daily. The grain legume mix I cook at night is very healthy, I get it at the parrot store here. The owner makes it in bulk for his regular customers. I wish she would eat the "cereals" and the ROUDYBUSH pellets I bought her. She really only wants to eat anything she can shell. Peas, grapes, orange slices, safflower, nuts, hemp. Anything solid that she can dip that will soften she enjoys too. Breads, bananna chips, she likes some dried fruits. I think her eating has to do with texture more than anything. I only feed her small amounts daily of about 1/4tbs total of hemp and safflower as a treat since I know how she loves it. She does enjoy eating dinner with the family, I used to feed her a bit of what I ate nightly. I don't recommend that as they get so used to it that they will starve to wait till you eat and fill up on that and not what is made for parrots. There is far too much fat and salt in our food for a bird to eat. I will give her a very small BITE. Sundays, she gets a scrambled egg with some cheese (SHE IS A CHEESEAHOLIC!) what she dosen't eat from the egg, the dog gets. Sundays are super special to the pets! I like making her healthy cooked dinner, with extra peas, since she just loves those at night. Desert is an orange slice that we split. I just wish she would eat more food. As I said, she is a tiny lil thing! She gets 3 meals a day, and all are different. I wait for her to fill up, and then take the bowl out. She can free feed on the RB and cereal mix. The diet she was on when I got her was largely safflower and sunflower. It's no wonder she was hardly feathered.

The feathers she has are beautiful. She seems to pluck only the primarys. She has a partly naked chest, even that has grown in since I got her the humidifier. You may have something about itching. We live in PHX AZ. We both have dry skin. I've had the humidifier going 24/7 for 2 months and I have definately noticed a big difference in both of our skin conditions! She used to "itch" quite a bit. I thought it to be just grooming, hindsight she may have been scratching since she hardly does now. I had all the blood and stool panels done back when I first got her and another about 8mos ago. I'm taking her in next week for more since she is egg laying now.

I was reading about a woman who wants a TOO, and people were saying how they scream so loud. I don't know if it is from abuse or luck. When she does sound off, it's only when she gets left alone, even that has finally almost ended. She has a fairly large vocab too. Hi Kyle, Pretty bird, hello, morning Kyle, how are you, Where ya goin (the screams when anyone leaves her feild of veiw) Cookytoo, what ya doin Kyle, and I love you is her new one. She laughs like me now and answers the phone for me. She is the quietest parrot I know. She talks to me like a person, and she mumbles a lot. She says something that I call bird swearing. I can't figure it out. (shut the door, feed the dog, I think) She says it when angry, and continually under her breath, kind of funny. People shouldn't teach them swearing. I don't find it cute or funny, esp if you don't keep the bird for life. I saw videos on utube of a guy who thinks it's hilarious how many swear words his african grey says. :(

She has big abandonment issues. It's taken me a ton of work to make her not totally freak out if she can't see someone. I feel so sorry for her. And I know we are probably too close as I am home 24/7 with her. I have now got her on a great schedule that I've had for a year now. I'm hoping that buying her a new table top playstand for the living room will help to separate us a little more. I used to let her out whenever she really wanted. Now, she has to wait until Brian goes to work. At 10am I put her back, I go about my cleaning and after noon, or when I finish she can come out until Brian is home, then she goes up again. She will bite him anyway. But they are working on that when she is in the safety of her cage. Seems to be helping them bond! She loves her nightly tummy rubs, always waits in the same spot. I think if I keep the same schedule, and am disiplined with her, more than I was, I have done all I can to help her with the plucking. I did try a peacock feather in her cage. She started chewing that about 2 weeks ago. So far, she seems to be relaxing a bit with it. It may be something she will always do. I'm asking the vet if he thinks we should give Prozac a whirl, even though I hate to medicate any animal. It may be worth a shot. Then I will have done just about everything. I tried all you suggested. Oddly for a too, she won't touch wood toys. She will eat sheets when she's on the bed. I put one hanging in her cage, she has a towel on the side blocking the tv light, she rarely touches those. I think it's too ingraned. Maybe now that she's egg laying? We'll see!


QUOTE

I must wonder how much of a danger Hard Anodized Aluminum is. We have it and use it. (contains no PTFE - brand name Teflon) I know that others do as well without issues. I would like to know personally if all cases of overheated appliances/cookware included PTFE/PFOA, or if in any cases it did not. I myself have read conflicting information about Hard Anodized Aluminum
Nice to hear someone is as confused as me. I went as far as to write CALPHALON about what is safe and not. I will post when/if they reply. I certainly hope their info isn't from animal testing. There really isn't even that much on the net when you google. I'd never use TEFLON now. But, there is HARD ANODIZED and HARD ANODIZED ALUMINUM. I'm confused about them, I've seen so much conflicting reports.

Bugs. I've cleaned and vacummed till my head spun off. It's that beehive attracting them. We have to have the roof re-done now. I freeze ALL pet food for at least 3 days. I have airtight containers for everything. Our food as well. They keep showing up. Found a giant roach in my shower yesterday! EW! We're pulling the carpet, starting this weekend and laying tile. I hope it helps. I'm just very bug paranoid! The problem intitially began when I opened a 25lb bag of guinea pig pellets, got out a scoop, then a second and noticed the food was MOVING! I am talking, millions and billions of flour beetles. That was one of the most horrifying things ever in my life. I had the bag several days and didn't know it was infested. I haven't ever seen something SO infested in my life. You can imagine what I said to the owners of the pet store. I don't shop there now. I prefer vacumm sealed foods for the other pets, and I check for any movement and air escape. Indian moth larvae I've found hide well and don't die easy. I think they have an egg stage that's immune to cold. But I only had those 2 times. When the roof and the window I have leaking honey are fixed, I think the issue will be solved.

You had the BEST advice about a bath with ICE!! Never heard that! She LOVES ice. She gets about 4 cubes a day to chew. LOVES THEM. I will try that. Right now I gently bathe her in the shower with just a slow hand-held shower head every 4-6 days. I'm not clear on how often to bathe her. She has a problem I'm working on solving with those scarred feet, of course I don't blame her. I think since she was outside her water problem is due to lawn sprinklers. Who knows. I'm gently trying to touch her feet every day and pet them. She's understanding it's not always bad to have feet touched. She's afraid of clippers, but her beak wears unevenly and needs trimming every so often, claws too. She wriggles like a maniac and screams her guts out. I'm doing my best to get her used to it. She may never enjoy it. I'm trying to get her to tolerate it. I hope she'll bathe herself with a tempting ice cube in a tub. Great idea!

Thanks for the links and awesome suggestions. I learned a lot from you. I'll update on how she does.

She had some bleeding along with her stool the 2 stools she has had since she laid her egg. Is that normal? Being her first, I assume so. What do I do with the egg? I'm thinking of "blowing" out the yoke and keeping it. I did that with my pet chicken eggs. What do other people do with unfertile parrot eggs? She seems to want to mother it for a bit and since it's her first I made her a blanket nest, she's sleeping happily in it. She is very tired. She does a little butt wiggle dance I've never seen her do also when she rolls the egg. I'm proud of her! And somewhat relieved. I know she is healthy and happy for sure. A bit worried about the blood, but if I shot out a watermelon the first time, I would too! Should I think about getting her a boyfriend now? I don't want our friendship to change too much, I know it will somewhat. She's about 15 now.

Thanks a lot!
~LAUREN~ and KYLE
I

[Monica]

I've read that some amount of blood is normal in first time layers so as long as it does not continue it shouldn't be an issue. I would like to state though that although a bird lays eggs doesn't necessarily mean they are healthy or happy, although if they lay a good egg, it at least says that they are in good health. I know of a family who found a cockatiel in their yard, decided to keep her, and put her in a small cage. She never laid any eggs. Her cage was upgraded to one about 3 times larger (although, IMO, still too small for a cockatiel), and she started laying eggs. Now, I should mention that at the time this house was overrun with cats, and everyone in the house, if they were not smokers, they were heavy smokers. Not only this, but at least one of the kids does drugs and a bunch of other unhealthy things. Well, this little tiel laid eggs. Her eggs were removed, and she laid more. She was on a seed only diet, and constantly covered up because she was "too noisy." And then they "forgot" to feed her, and she started to slowly starve to death. Still, she laid eggs, which became mishapen (ablong, or small, or?), and she still sat on them. When I took her in, she was 56 grams, or less, and she's supposed to be around 90+ grams. I've had her for some years now, cage-free for quite a while, a much larger choice of foods, she's been keeping a weight about 84-88 grams, and she's never laid an egg for me! She now lives in a cage-free environmen with other cockatiels, and the only time it's dark is when it's dark outside!

It sounds like you've been doing a lot for Kyle, and that's great! As far as her laying eggs specifically, well do you want to breed her and possibly loose her as a companion? Generally speaking, breeders do not make good pets, and pets do not make good breeders. If you got her a mate, there's no guarantee the two would get along... and I've heard horror stories of males killing their mates. You'd also have to be prepaired to handfeed, which means knowing how to handfeed and having the proper setup to handfeed. Personally though, I'd recommend to remove the egg, put the egg in the fridge, and then change around her cage and environment to discourage her from laying more. Also, remove her nest, as this is only encouraging her to lay more eggs. If she lays another egg, remove that one as well. If she lays a third egg, then give her back all of her eggs and allow her to sit on them if she so pleases, for about 3-4 weeks.

Be careful on the cheese, since birds are lactose intolerant and their bodies can't process most dairy products very well. Hard cheese is better than soft cheese.

As for the skin issues, some Red Palm Oil may help if you supplement it in her diet once a week. If you have any health food stores near you, check out the isle for cooking oil and you might be able to find some there.... or even checking your local bird stores for palm nuts to see if any carry them. RPO is great for the skin, the eyes, their feathers, even their sinus!

You may also be interested in checking out this page... petting in birds, especially hormonal ones, should be kept to the head and neck region, anywhere else could potentially be sexual stimulation.
How Not to be a Tease

[expressmailtome]

Hi! For feather plucking and chewing many people here use Pluck no More with great results.

Matt

[becca623]

Hello. Welcome to birdboard.

[becca623]

Cockatoos are so hard to convert to new foods. I switched my birds to natural pellets about 2 1/2 years ago. I talked my mom into switching her cockatoos to natural pellets last year. She bought some in July. Cece (moluccan) still hasn't touched them. Luckily, she's great about eating her fresh foods and birdie bread. My mom had to take her to the vet today for a sinus infection and picked up our vet's own brand of pellets to try. So far, Cece hasn't touched them. We'll probably give in and get her some colored pellets again if she won't eat these.
Her other moluccan is a rehomed female in her 20s. She is terrified of water. Apparently spray bottles were used as punishment in her old home. It's so hard to bathe either of them because of her issues. She has panic attacks at the site of water. Princess was very afraid of women but we were lucky. She overcame that fear when she stayed with me for the first couple months. (This was before we knew I was highly allergic). She was a plucker and chronic egg layer in her original home. She damaged her feather follicles so most of her stomach is still bald but she quit the egg laying and plucking when she came to live here.
Is there an area that you could set up an outdoor cage or aviary for her? Cockatoos really seem to benefit from the outdoors. My mom's toos even eat better outside. They have a dog run that was transformed to an aviary. If you had a save place she could spend a few hours each day outside, it would probably be very good for her. It might help her learn to spend some time on her own.
A quiet cockatoo? You got lucky. I haven't met many of those. Maybe it's because she's an umbrella. The few quiet ones I have met have been umbrellas. An umbrella was my first choice for a too but I got talked into Cece when she wasn't even feathered and she is a love.
Instead of a sheet, you might want to get some fleece material for her to play with. She's less likely to get caught in a loose string or swallow a piece that could really mess up her insides.
Have you tried giving fresh branches to her? Cece and Princess aren't into the wood toys I've bought for them but they love fresh branches from my parents yard. Although they did quite a number on my living room walls.
It sounds like Kyle was never taught or allowed to be a bird when she was a baby so she never learned how to be a bird. I think it's highly important for them to learn that they are birds from a very early age especially the needy ones like cockatoos.
It's great that she has a mom that loves her so much and who does everything she can for her. It would be so nice if all animals had that.
I don't recommend getting a mate for her. Cockatoos can be very violent animals. She could get seriously injured or killed. Plus, breeding is complicated. It's a whole other story. Not to mention the thousands of cockatoos in rescues already.
Although if you want another bird for you, I would suggest another female: maybe one from a rescue near you?
Have you tried providing a sense of being part of a flock for her? Like the bird sitter dvd that could be played for her when she isn't getting human interaction. Parrots spend pretty much 24/7 with their mates, parents, siblings, etc in the wild. They aren't really equipped for spending much time alone.
If you have a camera, please feel free to share pictures of her with us.
OT, what color are her eyes? Are they black or brown? It isn't important. I'm just curious because so many people are told that all females have light eyes. I haven't found that to be true in my experience so I'm always curious.
Anyway, I hope you enjoy the board. There is a ton of information here.