The Feather Distribution Project

[SavvyMoon]

...
I've heard from friends who have lived with and/or near the native Americans
in New Mexico and Arizona areas, that the NAs would
most likely never use the vast majority of these
donated feathers... UNLESS they were being used to produce
souvenirs that they would SELL for profit and to attain income for the community.
Now, I'm not saying this is a BAD thing... not at all.

But I think the website offered is really not being quite "up-front" about the use of these feathers.
Also this whole Project Feather donation thing was first cooked up back in the early 80's, when importing was still allowed and there was a real problem with it.

Think about it: Native Americans whose "cultural traditions depend on getting feathers" from birds that are NOT native to the area or country in which they live?? Hmmm, I can't imagine why that would be.

The website also implies that the Native Americans will revert to smuggling, killing or harming parrots and wild birds to attain these feathers, therefore donating them "saves parrots and birds" from that fate.
That... is just insulting...

JMO; ya gotta read these kinds of websites with a very critical eye sometimes. As cynical as that may sound...

[The Outlaw]

Here we go again. I have a real problem with soliciting for feathers. I know too many people with sick birds that didn't know their birds were sick for quite some time. It just seems to me that it's UNSAFE to be sending feathers all over the place. You and I both know that these feathers aren't properly laundered before they are packaged and that means that pathogens tag along for the ride. The same postman that picks them up from one house, touches YOUR mail too. That's why I never allow deliverymen into my home. I love my UPS guy. He's very nice, but he also delivers to Farmer's Co-ops and they have chickens, geese and ducks. No thanks. Count me out. Just remember Exotic Newcastle's Disease.

THE OUTLAW

[SavvyMoon]

Outlaw-

That is another EXCELLENT point that never even dawned on me!

OK, so that's TWO reasons to be very wary of these
feather solicitations...

Savvy*

[blueroseaviary]

The reason that I posted that information is because someone had asked for it a while back. Although I am NOT sure whether or not it was on this board or another list.

Now as for insulting the Native Americans (my husband is a member of the Laguna Pueblo tribe) traditionally many of the southern tribes did use Macaw feathers in their headresses. The obtained many of these feathers from trading with tribes further south. I can also tell you from personally knowing many of the people in these tribes that they are very concerned about conservation and are very happy to receive donated feathers for their regalia.

I was NOT soliciting for feathers, just sharing information. There are many pet owners and breeders that do donate feathers and there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with doing so. Of course if you choose not to, there is nothing wrong with that either.

However, being a Native American myself I find some of the comments made personally insulting, especially since uneducated comments were made without even knowing anything about our history or culture.

[The Outlaw]

Jill:

I have no problems with the native Americans or what they chose to do with them. I DO have huge problems the the epidemic of PDD, PBFD and END. After all, if you have END discovered near your home, YOUR birds are effected. If I in any way offended you or any other native American, it was completely accidental.

My point is this: we have to THINK before we do things. I've said this a million times, this is zoology, not just pet ownership. We could literally wipe out ALL parrots and others by something as innocent as this.

THE OUTLAW

[SavvyMoon]

My husband is also Native American. (Cherokee/ North Carolina area) and nothing I said was meant as an insult to YOU or any native american.

I also realize you were not soliciting feathers, but only passing along a web site for informational purposes. :-)
Any criticism was directed at the website, not you.

I was just passing along information I got from MY friends,
some of whom have lived with Native American families right
on New Mexico and Arizona reservations.
They certainly know plenty about NA tradition and practices.
And I'm am not completely "uneducated" about them, either.

I won't argue the point that some tribes may some times have traded for tropical bird feathers with other tribes from Mexico etc.
I'm sure that can be true.
But for that website to declare that North American NA tribes "depend on" tropical bird feathers to keep their traditions alive?
That is stretching it a bit, don't you think?

And why would any tribe or reservation need more than 6.5 MILLION feathers?
6.5 Million??
(That's what the web site said has been donated so far, right?)
You don't find that number curious?

Come on, someone is making $$ off this "project" somewhere...

Savvy*

By the way; it was the WEBSITE that implied if feathers weren't donated the native tribes might revert to helping smugglers, or killing/decimating wild bird populations to get them... I didn't say that.
I think that is VERY insulting to native people!

[SavvyMoon]

Well may as well delete the ENTIRE topic, since Bluerose
deleted the original post with the website link we were discussing.

Sorry she got in such a snit, but honestly; she
must have misunderstood/misread me (and Outlaw)
if she thinks voicing our opinions was an insult to her or NA peoples.

But of course now no one else can determine what the heck
the fuss was about, because the link is gone...

::: shrugs :::

This is the right topic area for "discussions" right?

[SavvyMoon]

Oh I'm not "upset" about it.

I just can't believe she was....


I thought both Outlaw and I explained ourselves as best we could
and there really is no reason she should have been offended.

By the way, I had no idea that specific post regarding the feather donation website was one of or part of her usual "information links" postings.

She usually doesn't list just ONE link...
I thought she posted that link because she thought it was a good idea and was endorsing it.
I was merely voicing my opinion about being very cautious and critically assessing (any) websites like that.

[Peaches]

I know you said to call it quits so any answers to my questions can be PM'd to me but I was curious ... barring the transmission of disease that Outlaw brought up. What is so wrong w/ giving of the feathers even if they DO sell them for money ?

Jeez, caucasions have taken the best land and given most NA lousey land as reservations. We have treated NA very poorly in many ways and we want to nit-pick over feathers that are normally thrown out ? IMHO, the NA is the most poorly treated of ALL the "minorities" and crimmineys it was THERE land to start !! IMHO, they should get all the feathers they want ... it is the (very) least we can do...and so what if they make a buck.

[SavvyMoon]

Originally Posted by Peaches

I know you said to call it quits so any answers to my questions can be PM'd to me but I was curious ... barring the transmission of disease that Outlaw brought up. What is so wrong w/ giving of the feathers even if they DO sell them for money ?

Jeez, caucasions have taken the best land and given most NA lousey land as reservations. We have treated NA very poorly in many ways and we want to nit-pick over feathers that are normally thrown out ? IMHO, the NA is the most poorly treated of ALL the "minorities" and crimmineys it was THERE land to start !! IMHO, they should get all the feathers they want ... it is the (very) least we can do...and so what if they make a buck.

This is not, and has never been, a POLITICAL topic
or POLITICAL statement regarding Native Americans.
At least not in my mind.

If you or anyone else wants to read that into it,
that's your problem and not mine. I explained myself
very clearly in both my first two posts.
But lets try one more time:

I was criticizing the WEBSITE and the way they are
IMPLYING that the NA people "need" tropical bird feathers
for tradition and cultural reasons.
They also implied that if people didn't donate feathers,
the NA people would revert to smuggling and/or decimating
the wild bird populations to get them!
IT IS MY OPINION that is a lousy thing to accuse them of...

By the way, the feathers are being solicited by, and sent to, a
place in Illinois!! The website is NOT a Native American
website and these are not actual NA tribes collecting feathers.

It is also MY OPINION that with someone collecting
more than 6.5 MILLION feathers, some one is making
money somewhere...
and I have a feeling it's NOT the Native Americans!
Did I say that might be a cynical view?
Yes, I admitted it might be....

Now, you are free to disagree, you can believe every
word on that website without doubt or question- that's fine.
That's your right.
(too bad the link/site in question isn't posted anymore)

But PLEASE, don't make it sound like *I* am being
insulting, or "anti-Native Americans".
That is totally ridiculous.
Please re-read the all the posts.

Thats all I have to say about it.