Regarding the [ahem] Issues around here lately...

[SavvyMoon]

I've been thinking about this alot. (Yes, I have no life I suppose!)
And I'd like to say something, give my Opinion, if I may -

Joel, I'm just going to use you as an example, I Promise, I'm not singling you out for any malicious purpose; You are very knowledgable about birds, your advice is always reasonable and helpful. You seem like a good guy, too.
But I can't help but notice that you (and others, you aren't the only one) think of this board as a Social board
first and foremost and a bird board second.
I think it's evolved into strictly a social board for lots of regulars here.

Let's take a look at the board itself-
Where is most of the 'traffic'? In the Lounge, in The Can and the other "kick-back and chat" boards.
Where is the least traffic?
On the specific species boards. Up until the last day or two, many of those boards have gone *weeks* without new posts. Why?
I think it's because many of the 'regulars' spend most of their time socializing and kidding around and chit chatting on a personal level, and hardly any time reading and answering the other posts NOR initiating topics of interest regarding birds.

This wouldn't be a big deal at all- IF there were enough 'regulars' around all the time to pick up the slack (so to speak) when things got extra chatty in the social areas and dead-dull in the bird categories.
See what I'm saying?

I totally understand how many of us get friendly and wish to
take things to a more personal, non-bird related social level.
I myself have met several people over the years on bird boards whom I consider Friends now, and we message and chat together (sometimes almost every day).
But... We don't chat on the Board(s) where we met.
We chit chat on AOL, or MSN messenger, or on Yahoo messenger.
We've taken our personal friendships/banter/interaction -whatever you want to call it- to somewhere other than the bird boards where we first got to know each other.

We all know the focus to any bird board, is supposed to be the birds.
Everything else- all the fun stuff, is merely a bonus! to having smart, friendly people around- sharing about birds first and foremost.

I think it might be time to get the BirdBoard back on track; Birds and Parrots. Maybe it's time to whittle down the 'socializing' -just a bit- and
make Q & A about birds, anectdotes about birds, and other bird related exchanges the main focus here again.

There has been plenty of talk about the "cligues" that are evolving here, and how people feel left out, or let in, or indifferent altogether.
Well BirdBoard has a "chat room"... that's one place new friends can get together to chat and flirt and otherwise cut up. :)
If not there, then like I said, there's AOL, ICQ, AIM, MSN or YAHOO messengers.

I'm not trying to tell anyone what should be done here at birdboard.
I'm not a mod, I'm not an administrator, I'm just a member like anyone else.
I'm just sharing my observations with the "issues" we seem to come across more and more lately...what with people arguing and defending themselves, others coming in only to stir the crap, and the really baaaaaad job some of the moderators are doing around here, and all....

Savvy*

[kvnband]

Thank you savvy. Your points are excellent (and pretty darn true). I have already opened up a Q&A section (still in the works) to try to get the board back on track. In the near future, the board won't be any less fun. just more organized. Thanks for your comments.
Kevin

[Joel]

Savvy, as I've told you before, I do respect your opinion and rarily ever disagree with you. However in this case I just do, for the most part.

I and the others you mention who engage in off the wall joking, kidding, make believe flirting etc. do so just to cut up and have a little bit of fun of/to OUR LIKING. Most of the time we think we are doing it to entertain people here on the board & it has been quite obvious that some OTHER members are somewhat entertained by our efforts. We do get carried away sometimes and post our come backs and jokes etc. in not the most appropriate threads (not that often), for that I do apologize to the Purists. I had offered my time to be Janitor around here and move posts to where they are more suited and to clean out threads with useless material in them. No comments came from my offer.

The "CAN" was created for our silliness, can't we have a place to go to goof of without anyone wanting to control that and every word out of our mouths? Don't ya think that if no one else joins in our banter in the "CAN" maybe eventually (probably sooner than later) it will just die out or we will see that no one is still laughing and we will give it up on our own???

IMO we have been doing a much better job lately at catching ourselves & keeping our "stuff" in the "CAN", don't ya think so? Now if the mods would sweep up a tad better, then I say: PROBLEM RESOLVED. If they don't want to or don't have the time then let someone else do it or help do it.. What the heck is wrong with that suggestion?

Again I also totally disagree that the bird stuff/questions are getting ignored or over-looked etc......Sure it is possible to miss one once in awhile or forget about one once in awhile so if that happens the person asking the question can just re-ask it?

Yes, I will be honest as always. I do think of this board or any board as a social board IN ADDITION to a birdboard. Even Nancy's board is pretty dog-gone social...... For ME, I come here to help out with bird related questions, learn more for the benefit of my own flock, relax, let off some tension built up in my own personal life, laugh & joke, cut up, make friends, etc. etc..........I know any real socializing & real flirting can easily be done in pms or in personal e-mail. You know, I think, that those of us who engage in that stuff will take it there if we need to really get seriously involved in it. Doesn't the fact that we do it openly tell you & others that we are doing it for the comical aspect of it and in an attempt to entertain? Ok, so my comedic side has a lot to be desired, I'll be the first to admit that. Don't ya think if no one or very few people laugh out loud or don't join in, then the comedic stuff will just die out on it's own, even from the "CAN" area?

What I see is a few Purists trying to control this board TOTALLY by putting "tape" across our mouths or trying to get us banned etc....Of course I feel they will never admit that.......Keeping us in the "CAN" is just not good enough, acceptable enough for them IMO.

Are you a member of Nancy's board Savvy? If you are not, may I ask why not? Same question to others on here who are complaining. I see some of Nancy's members still coming here. Why is that? If this board is so bad why don't they stay only over there and why isn't everyone else going over there.

I have been a welcomed member there for awhile and it is run well and kept in line if ya like that sort of thing. I go there to see if I can be of some help, learn anything new that I can for my flock and I say something in general here & there. I DO NOT cut up there at all like I do here. Nancy would not allow that & I respect her right to run her board the way she sees fit. I enjoy (personally) BirdBoard much better and the people over here are more my "type". Does that mean I don't check in there almost every day to see if I can help with bird info. or offer a condolence or welcome a new member here & there....Noooooo........ I do check in but for me the format, the people, the lighter atmosphere (IMO), EVERYTHING is just more to my personal liking over here. I don't go over there trying to make trouble for her board or try and change it to my liking etc...........Maybe Nancy could just ignore what she doesn't like here and just join in and answer the questions people have that need her field of expertize or experience. Does she have to disassociate herself from here because she is unhappy with the way the board is temporarily flowing??? Who does that hurt?.............Does it hurt the birds, the people needing advice or the occassional goof-offs or those with a sharp tongue???? I think it hurts the birds and their keepers.......Anyway, I'll get off Nancy for now, I still think she is a great person & I wish her well and the best over on her board & everywhere else in life. I personally just think she went a little overboard with some of her comments on this board lately.

Savvy, if the record truly shows (I don't agree that it does btw) that most of the talk is in the "CAN", the "Lounge", "CHAT" or anywhere else you or others don't think it should be, then doesn't that tell ya something??? Tells me: that is where the interest is WHEN THERE ARE NO NEEDY BIRD QUESTIONS TO BE ANSWERED. I totally DISAGREE that the bird related stuff is NOT BEING addressed and answered as soon as it is seen. I think it is. I realize that you, Nancy and some others on here rarily joke around IMO, that is fine as that is YOU. Again I ask, can't those of us who like to kid around & chat about this & that, at THE VERY LEAST do so in the "CAN". Last I looked the vote to keep or get rid of the "CAN" was 18-2 in favor of keeping????? I guess everyone else here who didn't vote could care less as they don't poke their noses in there????

No, I don't agree that if there were more regulars around that the bird stuff would be taken care of in a more efficient manner. It may somewhat slightly, just due to sheer numbers but are regular QUALIFIED members really staying away because of the current atmosphere here or because they are so tied up in the LOUNGE or the "CAN"?? I personally don't think so. Heck, if there is something so important needing to get immediately answered which will save a life or help an injured or sick bird etc. then anyone can jump into the Chat room or "CAN" or send a pm or whatever to call in the troops to drop what they are talking about and come assist. That just rarily happens. I tell ya Savvy, if there was no cutting up here or socializing, I would still come on to help the birds when I could but the pull would not be as strong if I can't also get something back in return for my time in helping out with sharing my experiences with others here. I'm sure there are others that feel that way too.

I agree & have said so before that we should have specific categories for helping the newbies and to refresh info. for others that want it. We should have a sticky thread for Handfeeding, one for Cages, one for Food, one for medical emergencies one for training/taming etc......I personally don't think we need all those species specific categories as most info. applies to all exotics......Maybe we should have Finches, Canaries, Tiels & Cockys, Small & medium parrots, Large parrots, Lories etc.???......Use the extra room for bird keeping info., MAYBE???

If we are off here (as suggested) chit chatting in private e-mail, AOL, MSN etc. isn't that taking people from the board too?? I would rather they be here doing it in appropriate areas so they can be around to check in to help and add/share their experiences. We are supposed to be a big happy family, sharing info. and life's experiences etc. etc. with each other (I thought) with the common and most important bond being helping the birds stay safe, healthy & happy . Sure there will be fights and eruptions from time to time as in EVERY FAMILY. Things get resolved and we move on. We may lose one here & there but that is usually their choice not a result of being banned. Ya just can't please everybody!

In summation I feel there is room for all of us here, the occassional cut-ups and the Purists and everyone in between. The cut-ups were given a place to kid around, argue, whatever, so please y'all, can't we just have that area to be ourselves? If the mods sweep up more often elsewhere or get help then I think the rest of the problem will be resolved on it's own.....

Btw, I also thought the posts in the "CAN" were to be deleted after one week from posting date. That also hasn't been done and the 10 things thread was also supposed to be cleaned out of the comments and only the 10 things were to be left from each member. What happened there also? ETC....

Look, I'm not trying to be unfair with anyone but I am feeling like some are trying to squash (like a bug), a little humor around here. If anyone here wants me gone, just say so.

Savvy, we have already cut back on the goofy stuff, we will try harder to answer bird questions EVEN QUICKER (if that is possible?) but let us have some fun too. I know everyone has a different definition of fun, that is why there is the LOUNGE & THE CAN etc........

I see NOW that Kevin pretty much agrees with ya so I guess I have little else to say............except that I still see NO CLIQUES HERE according to the true meaning of the word "clique". Any that are referred to, by some, have been created in that person's own mind IMO.

Originally Posted by SavvyMoon

I've been thinking about this alot. (Yes, I have no life I suppose!)
And I'd like to say something, give my Opinion, if I may -

Joel, I'm just going to use you as an example, I Promise, I'm not singling you out for any malicious purpose; You are very knowledgable about birds, your advice is always reasonable and helpful. You seem like a good guy, too.
But I can't help but notice that you (and others, you aren't the only one) think of this board as a Social board
first and foremost and a bird board second.
I think it's evolved into strictly a social board for lots of regulars here.

Let's take a look at the board itself-
Where is most of the 'traffic'? In the Lounge, in The Can and the other "kick-back and chat" boards.
Where is the least traffic?
On the specific species boards. Up until the last day or two, many of those boards have gone *weeks* without new posts. Why?
I think it's because many of the 'regulars' spend most of their time socializing and kidding around and chit chatting on a personal level, and hardly any time reading and answering the other posts NOR initiating topics of interest regarding birds.

This wouldn't be a big deal at all- IF there were enough 'regulars' around all the time to pick up the slack (so to speak) when things got extra chatty in the social areas and dead-dull in the bird categories.
See what I'm saying?

I totally understand how many of us get friendly and wish to
take things to a more personal, non-bird related social level.
I myself have met several people over the years on bird boards whom I consider Friends now, and we message and chat together (sometimes almost every day).
But... We don't chat on the Board(s) where we met.
We chit chat on AOL, or MSN messenger, or on Yahoo messenger.
We've taken our personal friendships/banter/interaction -whatever you want to call it- to somewhere other than the bird boards where we first got to know each other.

We all know the focus to any bird board, is supposed to be the birds.
Everything else- all the fun stuff, is merely a bonus! to having smart, friendly people around- sharing about birds first and foremost.

I think it might be time to get the BirdBoard back on track; Birds and Parrots. Maybe it's time to whittle down the 'socializing' -just a bit- and
make Q & A about birds, anectdotes about birds, and other bird related exchanges the main focus here again.

There has been plenty of talk about the "cligues" that are evolving here, and how people feel left out, or let in, or indifferent altogether.
Well BirdBoard has a "chat room"... that's one place new friends can get together to chat and flirt and otherwise cut up. :)
If not there, then like I said, there's AOL, ICQ, AIM, MSN or YAHOO messengers.

I'm not trying to tell anyone what should be done here at birdboard.
I'm not a mod, I'm not an administrator, I'm just a member like anyone else.
I'm just sharing my observations with the "issues" we seem to come across more and more lately...what with people arguing and defending themselves, others coming in only to stir the crap, and the really baaaaaad job some of the moderators are doing around here, and all....

Savvy*

[SavvyMoon]

Joel,
Atually, I don't think we disagree all THAT much. :)
I have no problem with The Can (or any singular board) set aside
for off-topic chat.
I think every message board, no matter what the main focus is on that board, NEEDS a place for off-topic humor and chit chat.
I'd love to see it (The Can) UNMODERATED, except for really targeted abuse from people, there is no need for name calling or fighting like grade schoolers on ANY board, IMO, and yes, cleaned out at least 2 times a month would be good too!
This way if people don't wish to read the bantering, jokes and wink-wink stuff they don't have to go there. It also helps to avoid having to wade through it to get to the bird information in other specific topic areas.
That's been my position all along (especially once I finally understood
what The Can was for! LOL)

I understand that the whole socializing, bantering and fooling around thing is very important to you.
I "get it" I really do.
But for me, you're right, it's not that important.
See? We agree there, as well. :)

You asked if I was a member of Nancy's board.
Well, not that I think it's relevent to our conversation here,
(yes, I see it as a conversation, not an argument) :)
but yes, I was a member of her board for a VERY short time. However, it just wasn't "for me"; for several reasons.
And I admit, I came to that conclusion / impression in a very,
very short time.
I've been on line a fairly long time... I've been a member of MANY boards and e-lists and such over the years.
I can usually tell within just a few days or from reading through
message archives which e-lists, groups and/or boards are
interesting to me.

The following comments and clarifications do not reflect
ONLY/ALL my impressions of Nancy's board alone-
they are just "in general" statements!

I have very little to NO interest at all in discussing children, recipes, sewing projects, love lorn crap, school problems/parental complaints from kids, and things like that.
I have no interest in reading posts infused with repeated Jesus references, or Christian related bias- on any board other than a religious/spiritual one.

I have no interest in being on any topical list or board where there is little to no participation from the vast majority of members.
I have no interest in being part of a board that is slow and deadly boring day after day after day,
unless of course a 'fight' breaks out, then EVERYONE suddenly
wants to jump in...

I have no interest in being part of a board where the moderators don't do anything but stir the **** more often than not, don't do anything to improve the board, and/or are biased and unfair in their treatment of members according to who they are friends with. (Rules should apply to everyone, don't you think?)

These are just some of the reasons I don't stay with a board.
I've left this board before. I came back.
I sometimes go a long time without posting, but only because I just don't have anything to add to posts already made, or I have no interest in what's been posted because its not about Birds.

See, I think the fundamental difference between our 'take' on this whole deal Joel, is that you vigorously defend the social aspect of what's going on around here, while I vigorously ... crave, I guess is the word... something more Bird chat here.
I want to talk about birds! My birds, your birds, everyone's birds.
I want to see pictures of our birds, hear stories of them, listen to problems regarding them, and reading about the solutions too.

I come here because it's a Bird Board.
I would love if it was a GREAT bird board, I would love to see it improved upon and developed into a real nice place for newbies -- and old timers too.
I don't want to do away with ALL the humor and fun stuff. Really, I don't!
But I still don't see how that needs to be what the board is "all" about.

There are more than 1600 registered members here. How many really post more than once or twice? Probably 10%.
Maybe more than 10% READ the board, but how come they don't participate? I don't know the answer, not for certain anyhow.
But I have a feeling it's not because there isn't enough "fun" and frolicking.
I have a feeling it's because there's not much else to get in on.

If everyone thinks we have the perfect level of fun and flirting and
non-bird related chit chat, I can be cool with that, personally.
But can we all agree that MAYBE, just maybe, there
isn't enough of the BIRD chat to satisfy some of us as well?

Joel, as I said, I don't think we're disagreeing all that much afterall.

Savvy*

PS: just in case anyone is wondering, No, I have NO inclinations to become a moderator here (or anywhere). I would be sincerely flattered to be asked, but I would refuse. :) I already run a very successful e-list (7 yrs now) and that's enough on-line "work" for me thanks!
Just thought I should make that clear in case anyone thought I was brown-nosin' for a job.

[The Outlaw]

Savvy and Joel:

I DO regard both of you as friends. I DON'T think you have to limit your exposure to ANY place on the internet that you chose to go to. I DON'T hold grudges UNLESS I've had my personal privacy violated.

I didn't expect either of you to happily become a regular on my board. I wanted you to come if you wanted to and thought that you might like to exchange some ideas. I DON'T tell my members what to post. I tell them what NOT to post. NO FLAMING and NO RESCUE promotion has always been the policy for the obvious reasons.

As for light hearted humor and blue humor, it occurs on my group too. I have no problem with that because ITS A PRIVATE FORUM FOR ADULTS NOT CHILDREN. I carefully screen applicants for that. I don't, however, allow really lude stuff there for its simply inappropriate. Its not the place for your local hookers to hawk their wares (we've had quite a few try, hence the private forum now) or sell real estate, Avon or any other NON bird related products.

We just had to take politics off of the table for a dear member really got hurt as a result of me allowing the rank and file to state their views on Michael Moore's movie. We sometimes forget that we also serve the PARENTS AND FAMILIES of those who serve in the armed forces. I don't care for censorship, but I DO care about my members. That's why I'll go after them like a mother lion to make amends. I protect my flock.

I have rarely ever had to pull a post. As for religious references, I wouldn't stop pagans from posting their views either. I never have. Its your life, your belief and that's fine with me. Since I don't believe in curses, why should I?

Joel, I'm getting mixed messages from you. I could care less what you say ANYWHERE. The only thing I ever asked was that threads be protected and when they got off track to be moved to a proper area. That has been done and I had NO problem with that.

You ask why the actual bird related questions are so scarce. I'll tell you why. Because new members haven't a clue what they need or what questions are SAFE to ask. IF they happen to say the wrong thing, then they are eaten alive and of course move on. There is always a tactful way of gently leading someone to a better place.

As for welcoming members I disagree with on my board, I have no problem whatsoever so long as they do not disrupt the board.

As much as a free-style, unmoderated board seems to be the ideal, I assure you that it is a living hell. I've been on one and it was horrible. Trolls dominated the threads and you also had to worry about every kind of virus and trojan imaginable.

I really get tired of hearing how because I imposed censorship here (I did not) that this board is now dysfunctional. I ONLY asked that the threads remain pure and on topic. I admit, I'm anal in that regard. I don't usually read The Can or Even the Lounge because it isn't interesting to me.

When I couldn't find a board to meet my needs on the internet, I created one that did. Its been active (first called Parrot Phriends) for over 2 years and is constantly growing. I routinely cut inactive members and still its over 268 members. I usually remove AT LEAST 10 - 15 members each month. You do the math. Quantity means NOTHING. Its the quality of the information and the desire to return that makes a board successful.

This board has an awesome format and its potential is unlimitied IF it can just get back on track. Some of the members here also have memberships on my board. Many consider this place right here their ground zero. I totally respect that. I NEVER wanted to shut this place down. NOT FOR ONE MINUTE.
I LIKE the diversification.

I only asked for simple courtesy. Nothing more, really. And it has been too much to ask. I will continue to read here and when I can be of help, I'll post. I do feel an obligation to do that just as others before me helped me along. I am grateful beyond words to those who held my hand the first year I had my first bird. In fact, I love them for their generosity.

As far as friendly exchanges about day to day events and hobbies, etc., that's entirely up to the rank and file. My boards format isn't like this. I don't have the options that this forum has to really set things up that way. However, its worked just fine so far. In fact, it is a damn good formula.

For the record (and I know this is bragging but I don't care), my members managed to raise $1,000 for PDD research from May until October of this year. We did it by small donations, auctions, change collection, etc. And, my friends, you will ALL benefit should the research prove fruitful. I'm in no way ashamed of my board. I think its informative, supportive, civilized and a credit to the avian community. Its not for everyone. It was never intended to be.

Respectfully,

THE OUTLAW aka Nancy

[Joel]

Savvy & Nancy: I don't want to go paragraph by paragraph trying any longer to respond to all the specific points made. Everyone knows how I feel, I've repeated it enough that it is probably becoming sickening to most everyone (even to me, LOL)...... :)

Savvy, little to disagree with ya about in your last post. I have only one thing that sticks out in my mind, at this moment, that may yet need another comment about, as a form of clarification, without checking back for a second reading.

That is this: I have HUNDREDS of birds and many other responsibilities in my personal life. There are so many minutes in each day. I don't have the time (or desire to be completely open) to sit here and think up new bird questions to start topics off, I don't have time to talk about bird toys, I usually skip over the "welcoming mat" regarding the newbies, I don't take much time to offer condolences to bereaved members who have lost a bird, I don't usually play in all the games people come up with, rarily ever check out or play the games people post links to (think I did it once), etc. etc.......None of us can or should be expected to cover all the bases here.........I have so many birds and many local bird friends that I am kinda tired of talking about birds almost every minute of every day and caring for them from sun-up to sunset and into the wee hours of the morning. I rarily get adequate sleep due to all my birds etc........ I still however want to assist & share with our BirdBoard family, so they can help their birds with what I have learned over the years.

I rarily ever learn anything new myself on any birdboard that benefits my flock. That does not mean I know it all, far from it......... I have many general species specific bird books, manuals, bird medical books etc................so if I need to know something, I just look it up.

Yes, I do get a kick out of interacting with ANYONE on our board that wants to jump in and kid around on any topic. This board is in fact my entertainment on a daily basis. Rarily even watch T.V........Due to all my responsibilities here at home, bird related & otherwise, I rarily get time to go anywhere other than to the grocery store, post office, bank maybe and once in a blue moon to a sporting event and out to eat occassionally. HOWEVER, I am not trying to turn the board into my own personal playground, I'm just asking to be allowed to kid around with those that care to join in, in an area where we will not disturb others. Isn't that a fair request to kinda break up the monotony for me & others somewhat, especially since I am a contributing member here, helping out whenever I can on bird related topics?..........I'm also asking that if I or someone else slips up occassionally and posts an off color joke or etc. in the wrong place, can someone please move it to the "CAN" or wherever...I'm done, I hope.


Nancy: You said: "Joel, .................... . I could care less what you say ANYWHERE."

I wish ya would have put that statement a little differently especially the last sentence on that line :) . I hope ya meant it in a different manner than it may sound to many of our members here. Not good for what little reputation I may have left here

Btw, I don't remember any new members being "eaten alive" when asking a question of any sort, at least not from me? Care to quote an example?

Glad to hear you will still be coming around to B.B. from time to time, the more often the better, IMO, regardless of the latest exchange of words by myself or anyone.

Congrats once again on collecting the $1,000 to the PDD campaign on your board. Yes, all our birds will benefit from that, mine say thank you.

If ya have the time, would you consider doing that over here too? I'm in.

Well, have a good evening Nancy. I'm glad to hear I am still your friend.

[SavvyMoon]

Originally Posted by The Outlaw

Savvy and Joel:

I DO regard both of you as friends. I DON'T think you have to limit your exposure to ANY place on the internet that you chose to go to. I DON'T hold grudges UNLESS I've had my personal privacy violated.

I didn't expect either of you to happily become a regular on my board. I wanted you to come if you wanted to and thought that you might like to exchange some ideas. I DON'T tell my members what to post. I tell them what NOT to post. NO FLAMING and NO RESCUE promotion has always been the policy for the obvious reasons.

****
I didnt expect you to take my leaving your board as a "personal affront", because it certainly wasn't meant that way. And I'm glad you didn't!
I also forgot to mention THE most important reason I have -or would- leave a group, e-list or board;
I get too busy with work and/or Real Life (as I like to call it) and don't have time to participate fully.
I'm a real stickler for participation on my own e-list and I hold myself to the same standards on others.
If I find I don't have time to participate and contribute on a regular basis, that means (to me) that I have myself in too many places and I will then cut back.
Nancy, that is probably the biggest reason I left your board and at the same time left BFM and one or two other places as well.


For the record (and I know this is bragging but I don't care), my members managed to raise $1,000 for PDD research from May until October of this year. We did it by small donations, auctions, change collection, etc. And, my friends, you will ALL benefit should the research prove fruitful. I'm in no way ashamed of my board. I think its informative, supportive, civilized and a credit to the avian community. Its not for everyone. It was never intended to be.

Respectfully,

THE OUTLAW aka Nancy

****
Congrats on the fund raising! That is awesome, WTG!

Savvy*

[Joel]

So Savvy,

Ya got an e-list huh??? Can I join, can I, can I? ....J/K, seriously.

[Tiki]

I haven't noticed any bird questions being ignored by those who have the experience to answer them. I must say that in the species specific, I usually only look at the cockatiel one since that is the only species I can really help anyone with, provided they aren't asking about medical/technical stuff which I have no experience at all.

If the Can and the Lounge are exessively popular--there is probably a good reason for it. Please don't try to put tape over our mouths just for kidding around with each other. If it isn't to your taste, just don't go there. Same like a TV with remote control-you don't have to watch anything you don't like.

I don't mind helping out if Kevin wants me to with post shifting from bird threads to the Can since I seem to log on at times that are fairly inactive for American time zones. It is the time zones that basically rule out the live chat option for me.

Maybe there is a way to make the Can invisible to casual surfers? If you think that it might frighten off newcomers, that is? Then later when they get to know us they can ask to join? Or make the Can an "opt in" option. Anyone is allowed to join but they have to ask to join.

[The Outlaw]

Joel:

I wish we had a way to actually see our faces when we post. Of COURSE I care what you say, I MEANT I'm not OFFENDED if I don't agree with what you say.

Savvy, I knew immediately why you weren't comfy on my board. No explanation was needed. Its a free country and I want my friends and associates to be HAPPY whereever they go. I, too, frequently leave boards that don't have the right fit.

Once again, for the record, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE LOUNGE OR THE CAN. I just don't find them interesting. I think they SHOULD be here. They are appropriate for what they do.

And, I have made suggestions and so far none have been utilized. I have my own board and certainly don't need to control another one. The one thing that I LIKED about this one was the fact that I DIDN'T have to man it all the time. I HAVE no special responsibilities here. This used to be like recreation for me.

In any event, I'll shut up. If I can post something constructive I will and if I can't I won't. Simple as that. I'll keep my personal stories private or on other forums. I think they probably simply bore folks here anyway.

Respectfully,

THE OUTLAW