What are your views on censorship on this board?

[The Outlaw]

I'm very curious about the group's opinions on censorship on this board. I responded to a post that Tritak made in a now closed thread, and I see it has been pulled. She contacted me privately and apparently felt that I have been too bossy and too negative. That may be true. I just cannot and will not advocate bad avian management, no matter who promotes it.

In any event, what I want to know is this: is it more important to stroke someone's ego or to provide good, proven advice? I don't think that meanness or rudeness should be tolerated, but I do think that an honest exchange should be encouraged. If I am wrong, please let me know. I don't have time to just celebrate birthdays and kiss up. I have 10 birds to manage and two boards that I run. Just where is this board headed?

THE OUTLAW

[Graehstone]

I think it might be a little hard for some of the other members to answer to this specifically seeing as how the thread has been removed, but I have read it along with others I am sure.
Regardless of the fact that feelings might have been hurt and regardless who might be in the right or wrong, I feel that it was a wrong thing to close the thread and an even more wrong thing to remove it.

In my humble opinion there was nothing at all to warrant the removal other than possibly a bruised ego, and that on both parts.

And yes, I find all of this disturbing.
I might not be the most popular on the boards at the moment and even forgotten on others but this is something I thought needed adressing.

I truely hope that this board prospers greatly in the future!

[Joel]

Nancy, I'm with you on this totally......... Downright rudeness or nasty name calling should not be tolerated but "honest exchanges" should be allowed IMO even if the language used is sometimes a little "strong" or what some other people can label as bossy.

You and I have basically the same manner of talking as we come from the "same mold" IMO (just about the same age too btw) and that is from the mold of experience; frustration when people don't listen to our tried, proven & true advice; an immense love for both our own birds and those of others too; we put a high value on the lives and comfort and safety of every bird we see and hear about and thus we advise accordingly.

I am sure Tritak means well but I did not see anything you said in any of your posts as rude etc.......Sure you can sugar-coat your words a little more, as I sometimes should but then that would not be us as the way we speak is our own ingrained style and should IMO be allowed because most here realize the depths of where it is coming from......I was once kicked off a board or two or three because of my manner of speaking and when I did not cave in to a couple of rogue moderators, they then ganged up on me and I was gone (banned). Turned out to be in my best interests though as I don't have time for that mushy-mushy stuff too much (although it may seem differently in some of my posts )........I too am in this mostly for the birds and their welfare and not for simple chat or wishing happy birthdays and condolences for birds that have passed over the so called "rainbow bridge" etc........even though there may be a place for that too, especially in keeping the board members "bonded" somewhat as a family which can be nice sometimes ESPECIALLY IF THEY ALL LEARNED TO PLAY JAI-ALAI TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of the MAIN reasons I do visit this board so frequently and others occassionally is because I too want to continue to learn myself and share what I have learned over the years. There are very few people that I learn anything from on most boards and I tend to frequent those boards where there are the MOST knowledgeable/experienced people, like yourself............If you were to leave here, I may leave myself & take my future employee Cliff with me and if he wouldn't go I would TRUMP him & say "YOU'RE FIRED"!!!!!! ............ I have also seen over the years that it is in fact these most knowledgeable/experienced people who either leave on their own eventually or are tossed off for some trivial reason or another (maybe because they know so much or don't "kiss up enough"?).

I always hoped for a birdboard where adults can speak their minds completely open without worrying about children being present or parents being offended by adult language used in front of their children. MAYBE someday there will be such a board where content is more important than sweetness. I hope also that Kevin runs it.

I hear you have a couple boards of your own Nancy, I'll have to find a little extra time (asap) to drop in to say hi even though I was not personally invited ..........

[The Outlaw]

I, too, am a BIG fan of this board. I think its intent is to encourage and promote good avian techniques. I have learned so much in my past 5 years that I cannot begin to list it all here. And, because I have pushed and pushed for more knowledge, I have made it a point to meet and befriend some very, very knowledgable breeders and handfeeders. I don't guess. I research and wherever possible, I apply what I learn to my own birds. If it works, I'll share. It it doesn't, I'll be the FIRST one to let you know.

We will all make many, many mistakes along the way. We learn as we go. It is important, however, to always remember that the VICTIMS of our ignorance are our birds.

I have said on many occasions that I feel that having a large flock of personal pets probably isn't a good idea. I know from my PERSONAL experience and the failed attempts by many FORMER bird owners that its crucial to balance your time, knowledge, and resources before adding any bird, large or small to a household. You have to do your homework.

I didn't intend for this to get personal. I still don't like that aspect. However, it works like this: either you give people the opportunity to respond, respectfully, or they all go nuts behind your back anyway. Time is the best teacher. We can only tell what works and what fails to work over time. I don't think we EACH have to make every single mistake along the way. Sometimes, the voice of experience and logic can save a lot of expense and heartbreak.

I don't keep tigers even though they take my breath away. I don't have the resources, strength, acreage or money to care for them. I SHOULDN'T have tigers. I DO have parrots and the time, education and funds to care for them. That's why I have them now and didn't have them 20 years ago. Fate sometimes plays a hand. For those of you who have inherited or rescued some poor bird, Kudos! That's the humane thing to do. And, for those of you who meet the basic needs and then some for some wonderful bird, by all means get one. This isn't a case of being rich, Its about prioritizing and anticipating what's next.

I'm done preaching. After all, this is JUST MY OPINION.

THE OUTLAW

[Casa Amazona]

Guess I'll jump into this discussion. I'm fairly new to this board, so probably didn't read the thread that got closed. I also know that every story has three sides (yours, mine and the truth). Having said that, and speaking for myself, I enjoy feisty people. They add spice to our lives. I also enjoy sweet people. They add balm to our lives. We're all part of God's creation -- some polished, some not so much so, but all equally valuable.

Generally speaking, IMO, posts should be courteous. Beyond that, opinions are what we're here for and opinions that are well thought out, researched and experienced are especially welcome. Proverbs says, "Wounds from a friend can be trusted, ...." Some of the best advice I've had come my way in 55 years of living have caused me to say, "Ouch!"

Well, that's my opinion.

By the way, I've found neither you (Nancy) nor Joel to be abrasive, but knowledgible and supportive. Ornery -- yes!!! But then I like ornery.

[Joel]

I agree on all ya just said Nancy and from the voice of experience also, I advise not to have a large flock of bird pets as they require just too much time to interact with properly etc. etc. etc........I do have a large flock myself BUT I ACQUIRED THEM BEFORE I KNEW ANY BETTER. I am embarrassed to say that but I have learned from my mistakes too and am always looking for GREAT homes for some of them to go to for the rest of their lives. ONLY it is so difficult for me to find such homes as VERY FEW people qualify in my eyes. What a problem I have created for myself......

Tigers???!!!! .....Hey Nancy, I got a TIGER in My Tank (lol, J/K again)..... Yes they are beautiful etc. but I myself don't care for keeping any animal that I have to feed other living creatures to, even though they are usually dead at the time they were placed in the cages of the PREDATORS. They still had to be killed for that pupose in part. I think all predatory animals should have to catch their own food on an open "playing field" in order to survive (except humans as some of us just can't/won't do it)......Didn't mean to open another can of worms here (to anyone), just making a comment or two......Gotta run and get to work now......Later.....

[MiniMacMum]

Hi,
I did read the thread that was removed & saw nothing wrong with it. Nancy was stating something she feels very strongly about. I believe these boards are here to do just that. I have learned a lot from her & others coming here. I am here to learn what other experienced people have to offer. You have to take the bad along with the good. Tritak has her own opinion also. But, it was wrong to remove the thread.

[Joel]

After re-reading over your post Joanie, I'd like to make one other comment. You said "every story has three sides (yours, mine and the truth").........Just for the sake of discussion, I'd like to comment further on that statement if I may.

I feel that what you said, IME, is usually true but not always. Sometimes one of the two parties/views/stories is dead on right & correct and other times one of the two people or groups are simply just MORE right/correct than the other. That is why I have always felt that two or more open-minded people should sit down and calmly/politely discuss the topic at hand while sharing their own opinions/experiences/beliefs etc.....After discussing the topic each person should then re-examine their way of doing things and ADOPT the better way, if they are bright enough to see which is the better way in fact. Too many people today are just so stubborn and refuse to change because of an EGO THING, whereby they feel that no one is going to tell them what to do or how to do it and therefore OUT OF SPITE sometimes, whether it be conscious or sub-conscious spite, they refuse to change their ways/beliefs or even attempt to even try to change in order to prove to themselves that they could possibly be wrong..........Just needed to say all that as I am tired of hearing people (especially family) say : "Well, you do it your way and I'll do it mine.".......What kind of progress is that?? If things aren't working out by doing something one way, isn't it logical to try it another way rather than to be stubborn or have a false sense of pride and then continue to do it in the same way one always has.....

LOL , I better shut up now as I am starting to confuse myself but some of ya know what I am getting at or trying to say.

Btw, nothing I have just expressed my feelings on has really anything to do with the original topic at hand or any of the people involved in this thread. I just commented, in a general way, due to what Joanie said which I would have done if she said that in any other thread.

[Graehstone]

Ahhh, You just described a world void of Politics.
Utopian ideals for sure but they are never going to happen, just as the perfect form of governing would be communism in its purest form but for one minor detail, and that would be ,... Man.

Strip man of ego and you have chaos
Let man retain his ego and you have anarchy

Either way it is the nature of the beast

But should you ever get a place that is even close to what you describe, please let me know as there I would be pleased to rest my head to the end of my days

Peace

[kvnband]

OK, I just caught up with everything going on....Here's my view...Please nobody get upset, I'm just giving my honest opinion

Nancy: You have excellent information. You truly are a huge asset to this board. You know things that bird lovers only wished they knew. Losing you would be.....Well let's just say that we don't want to lose you. The only thing is that you say stuff bluntly...No sugar coating here & that IS FINE. I would rather have good, blunt information given to me than wrong sugar coated info. Some people might take offense to the way you post things. You and Heather are both adults. I think that you should be able to handle this without having the absolute rudeness that has been going on.

Now, to the censorship issue:

We lock threads when they have gotten out of hand...Period...Threads can be unlocked if a request is sent to me or a moderator. Even the best run boards will have problems. It is unavoidable. I am trying my damndest to get this board back on its feet, and yes, we are having some problems along the way. Posts or threads are deleted when they are completely irrelevant or unneeded spam. Heather may have deleted your post because she was angry...Understandable....We honestly do, as moderators, try to keep from deleting or locking anything, and so far...well, this is the first instance of mods using those powers.

And one last thing: Tritak, cgrite, blueroseaviary....cannot ban users...I am the only one with that power. I also believe that if Heather would have had that power right now, that she wouldn't use it.

In conclusion, I hope that you guys can work out your differences. You are both assets to the board as Tritak helps me tremendously around here when I can't be here.

Please please please make up. I would hate to lose either of you.

Kevin