Sad day for the Schiavo family

[The Outlaw]

Tiki:

Setting all emotions aside, the story goes like this:

Terri was a binge/purger (bulemic) who had a stroke that essentially left her in a vegetative state. She was put on life support 16 years ago. The husband did eventually start a new life, but DIDN'T ABANDON HIS WIFE. She NEVER had a good prognosis. He remained married to her for many reasons, not the least being that he carried her insurance.

From the beginning, the parents and he were at odds about who should make decisions on her behalf.

Having done hospice work and being able to look beyond the emotions, what I ultimately saw was a family torn apart due to a medical problem that would never have a positive outcome. A classic case of too much medicine and not enough thought about what to do next.

Ultimately, it became a political issue: republicans versus democrats on rights to life. The courts got involved and finally it was decided that her husband had the right to make decisions on her behalf. He decided to remove the feeding tube.

What people fail to realize is that just because a person moves around, it doesn't mean they have any idea of what's going on. Film footage showed a woman who appeared to have mobility. Some argued that she was in a comatose state. Others said that the very brain stem had been destroyed.

Ultimately, once the feeding tube was removed, she succumbed after a little over 2 weeks and died. It is assumed due to starvation and dehydration. An autopsy has been ordered. Seems redundant. No laws were broken. Perhaps there should be better laws.

Again, this could have ALL been avoided if folks would simply wake up and smell the coffee. YOU ARE THE MASTER OF YOUR DESTINY. Granted, people under 30 don't usually think about their mortality, but they should.

I know this won't make me popular, but I have dealt with death. There are far worse things. I know. I've witnessed it and witnessed it often.

THE OUTLAW

[Casa Amazona]

Assuming her husband did have the legal right to decide his wife's fate, it is an absolute puzzle to me that anyone would consider starvation to be humane in any sense of the word. Let's face it ... the decision had been made to end her life. Right or wrong, that was the goal of removing her feeding tube. That being the case, it would have been much more humane to use a lethal injection. We use that much compassion on murderers.

[Lisa B]

Perhaps someone with some medical background can explain it better then I can, but I can state what the Dr's sat and explained to the family when Kris was first hurt.
There are 10 stages of a person being in a coma. 1 being the worst, 10 being very awake and responsive. You do not need to be in a vegitated state to be classified in a coma..... How the Dr's classify a coma is if a person can follow a set chain of commands for 3 days in a row. The more you are able to follow, and repeat, the higher you climb on the scale.

The brain stem carries all the connections from the body to the brain.
The nerves that are within the stem are best described as resembling a pound of thin spaghetti. When someone is hurt, and their neck snapped...it would be like holding the spaghetti with both hands and bending it...Some of the spaghetti will break...some will bend...some in the very center will not be affected because they were protected from being bent.... The broken ones will not heal... the bent ones have the capability to mend...the ones in the middle will not be affected and will work as normal....
Speech is often lost because the relay for speech is located in the outside strand of nerves.
There is no way to tell the extent of damage done to the nerves. There is no test as to date. It is a guessing game, thus leading back to that set chain of commands followed over 3 days.
Most people who are in some "state" of coma are often given drugs to prevent seizures. This will make them appear more sleepy and unresponsive.
Thus the term "drug induced coma" . When the drugs are stopped, they run high risks of seizures and damaging the stem cell more, or running high temps and frying thier brains. My nephew is on Tegretol.

A feeding tube is inserted at this time because the patient can not swallow.

One never knows the exact amount of damage that is suffered by whatever caused their coma to begin with. Each case is different.

Brain Dead, and comatose are two differnt things. Comatose patients often have alot of brain function, but are not able to relay the messages to the parts of the body needed to move them up that scale to a higher level.

Brain stem injuries, and head injuries are also two differnt things. Brain impact injuries tend to leave poeple more in a vegitated state, and often that is the time you will see no brain function. I only have experience with brain stem injuries.


I hope this can explain it a bit better....and Outlaw is right...it is very important if you can get a living will done, do it....Never leave this horrible decision to your family........for it is a battle most are not ready, nor will ever be, ready for...............

[jen&friends]

Sounds like I'm in the minority, but Nancy, you put that well. John - the cerebral cortex is not the entire brain - she was not in a coma, but had no cognitive abilities, (the body can still move, the face can still seem to have expression, the person can still be in a seemingly wakeful state - but I would never consider that "living". It is not the same as someone that is what we consider to be disabled.) It doesn't matter what you think of Michael Schaivo - that is for God to judge and no one else.
As for the starvation part of it - it does seem rather brutal, I mean, if the decision is made that a person has come to their end, it seems rather ludicrous to drag it out like that. However, I can say that my dad recently passed away from inoperable cancer. He went downhill rather quickly and the doctors said that they did not recommend doing anything to prolong his life. And so, as my dad slowly became less "lucid" and could not eat or drink on his own, he very peacefully slipped away. There was no feeding tube that most certainly would have prolonged his life - but to what end? He endured no pain, no agony, not the kind of reactions we would see from a healthy, cognisant human being. And this is absolutely what he would have wanted.
And be careful what you believe - I have read several things here that have been twisted and taken out of context...for instance, did you know that in the 90's Michael Schaivo invited Terri's parents to come and live with him so that they could care for Terri at home? After several weeks Mary Schindler said that she could not take it and asked that Terri be sent back to hospice care. And do you really have the true info on the money? Maybe not - Look beyond what you want to believe and see both sides.

[The Outlaw]

Lisa:

You explained it beautifully. I know its difficult. The whole idea of it being TOO difficult to plan for when you are young and healthy is simply a cop out. Its difficult and inconvenient to do a lot of things. Its HARDER and indeed IMPOSSIBLE to do it when you are THAT sick.

Actually sick isn't really the correct term. Sick implies that this will pass and life will go on, perhaps imperfectly, but in fact it will continue with some degree of happiness. She was entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If the only thing that kept her going was a feeding tube, just what liberty and pursuit would she be able to have?

I ask you this: how do you think the nursing staff feels treating family members with these kinds of prognisis' when they are completely at the mercy of doctor's orders? How many nurses and doctors would opt for an indeterminent life support order?

And, for the record, knowing that Terri's parents were older, just how long could they have taken care of her before they couldn't anymore? Then what?Did they have insurance in place for treatment? Just what insurer would pick up coverage for her?

I don't have the answers to these questions and I won't have to worry about them in the future BECAUSE I have already dealt with it. I call this my death insurance. I have the RIGHT to die if I have no real chance to live. JMHO

[Lisa B]

Originally Posted by jen&friends

However, I can say that my dad recently passed away from inoperable cancer. He went downhill rather quickly and the doctors said that they did not recommend doing anything to prolong his life. And so, as my dad slowly became less "lucid" and could not eat or drink on his own, he very peacefully slipped away. There was no feeding tube that most certainly would have prolonged his life - but to what end? He endured no pain, no agony, not the kind of reactions we would see from a healthy, cognisant human being. And this is absolutely what he would have wanted.

Sorry for the loss of your dad. I too just lost mine in June, and your story seems just like mine. My dad had demencia. There is no cure. There was nothing that could have saved him, or helped him in any way. My dad passed on within 48 hours of his coma.
It was very differnt to watch my father in his coma, where we knew there was no brain function, and my nephew who is very much still in there.

Its hard to watch anyone you love go through that......


Outlaw...Thank you.....Lisa:

You explained it beautifully. I know its difficult.

[Vankarhi]

I am not going to read all the posts, it is all too sad. I will just say my opinion. I don't probably know all the facts, but from what I have heard here in Australia, it appears that her family were more than willing to look after her and pay the financial costs to keep their daughter/sister etc alive. If her husband had enough and wanted to get on with his life, why wasn't he just given a divorce or anulment (probably spelt wrong, it looks wrong anyway). Here in Australia, brain dead means no blood supply to the brain and no brain movement (I think that is the terminology). In other words in a vegetitive state. The little bit that I did see on TV, Terri looked alive to me. Seriously brain damaged, but alive and probably able to communicate (slightly as it might be) with people. I find it very hard to believe that someone could let someone just starve to death.

Anyway that said, nothing can be done now (except maybe stop it happening to someone else), but she is now in a better place where her spirit is free of pain and all our earthly constraints. She can be happy. Just my opinion.

[Peregrine Harlequin]

Well, I'm definitely in the minority here, so I'll try to be as inoffensive as possible.

For starters, I don't think Life is the most sacred thing around. Sure, it's wonderful and mysterious, but if you're not happy, why bother living at all? There have been times that I've wanted nothing more than to be free of this world. But knowing that killing myself would completely destroy the happiness of those around me (especially mom), I didn't go through with it.

So now I tend to take life one day at a time. Sometimes the smallest and stupidest things can make me happy, but I've learned that those are really the things that make life worth living. And as far as I'm concerned, when someone can no longer appreciate all the little things, s/he's no longer alive.

As for who did the "right" thing down in Florida, I won't get into that. I neither know nor care. And maybe I'm just a cold, evil kinda guy, but I like to look at people the same way I look at animals. Regardless of what state her brain was in, would people have shown as much interest if Terri was a dog? Or a bird? If she was an "animal," she would have been euthanised years ago. I'm sure none of us would keep a pet, which was unable to move and eat on its own, alive for 15 years. And if we can "ease the pain" of our beloved pets, I don't understand why we refuse to do it for our beloved people.

So that's what my heart tells me. Argue if you want, but know that hearts aren't changed as easily as minds. And you've probably figured it out by now, so I'll just say it. I'm glad Terri is finally free of this world. But starving her? It would have been cheaper, easier, and more appropriate if someone just gave her an injection, shot her, or just whacked her with an axe. Since her husband loved her so much, he could have at least given her a quick, easy, and dignified death.

I'm aware that this may offend some of you. And while I won't apologize for my beliefs, I recognize that my tone may be less than perfect. So if any of the above offends you, think of it as a view into the mind of someone different from yourself.

[David S]

I agree with Nancy...... regardless of where you stand on the issue, let this be a wakeup call to everyone who has not set up their living will..... do it NOW and save all of your loved ones a great deal of heartache should you ever become incapcitated and unable to make decisions about your own health care.

[Tiki]

I gotta say, I am really freaked out by this. I went to two bookshops looking for DIY Living Will kits (no luck), found a couple on Google but I have to be sure they are legal in Australia. While I am at it, I need to set up some kind of trust for my birds because I have no potential guardian as of now who could take them in and I can trust not to take the bird's trust money for themselves. Hell, I don't even have a current will, I feel terrible!