Moving...advice with dogs?

[Vega]

Hey all, I'm going to move in the next couple months and I'm kinda stumped as to what to do with my dogs. I have 3: Ginger (12 years), Darla (10 years), and Vega (7 years). Vega and Darla are definately going with me, Vega because she's my baby and I've had her since she was about 5 months old, Darla because my mom never really bonded with her and I was told if she doesn't go with me she'll be going back to Animals Friends (the shelter we got her from 9 years ago). However I'm stuck as to what to do with Ginger.

Backround on Ginger: my brother got her at just a few months old, when he had to move back home she came with him. I basically took over her care from there. When he got married 7 years ago he tried taking her with him. For the few hours he had her at the new house all she did was cry/whine so he brought her back to our parents, where she's been ever since. At the time we didn't have Vega yet. I got Vega a couple months after that her and Ginger bonded and seem to do EVERYTHING together (to this day Ginger growls at Darla for some unknown reason). They've been together now for the past 6 years or so.

I don't want to leave Ginger behind because of her bond with Vega. And because I don't want her thinking "why couldn't I go". But I've read that with dogs her age such a drastic change could be harmfull for her health-wise. (I'm moving out of state) There's also the issue of her aggressiveness. She's fine with family and friends in the house, it's strangers that she's not real keen on. She has bitten in the past, nothing serious, but she still did it. The community I'm looking to move to has children and don't permit fences. I think she'd be alright once she got to know them, but I'm concerned of what her actions will be UNTIL then. My mom keeps telling me to just leave her at the house because that's all she really knows.

Any advice on this? It may sound like something stupid to worry about, but it's really bothering me. I want to do what's best for Ginger, but I'm not sure what that would be. Leaving her at home and taking her friend away, or taking her from home but keeping their "pack" together.

[Fanfare]

Just a few questions for you.

What type of dog is Ginger? How big is your new place? The house? The yard? If you take Ginger back to the shelter, what are the chances of someone wanting a ten year old dog with a few vices? Being a shelter dog, how do you think she would she take to being in a chain link kennel in the back yard if you were to get her one. That's not a fence, it's a cage of sorts.

[Roo]

There is going to be stress for Ginger either way. She either loses her pack or keeps her pack and deals with the move (which might not be that big a deal, really, because she'd have her pack). Were it not for the "issues" with children I'd say just take her with you, as the change in location is far less likely to ba problematic than the loss of Vega.

But there *are* "issues."

What breed (or best guess mix :) ) is Ginger? What does she do around children? Does she get wound up and chase? Does she act like she just doesn't want to be around them and then get snarky when they are in her face? Something else? What about when she's around adults?

What were the circumstances when she did bite? What type of bite? Nip? Break the skin? Multiple strikes?

There are a lot of factors to consider. Where in PA are you? I could possibly refer you to someone who could evaluate her. While she's an older dog with what are probably established behaviors, there might be some changes in how you handle her, react to her, and manage her that might make her less of a liability for you. "Aggression" has many causes, and exists in many forms.

As for confinement, we got a lovely kennel run (way nicer than chain link) on eBay (like this one ) because we hadn't yet fenced the property. The dogs use it for peeing and pooping (we have it attached to the house so the house is one of the sides, and put pea gravel on the bottom. It's really convenient and a breeze to keep clean.), and we deal with training/working/exercising separately. Your association might let you do one of those (especially if not visible from the street).

I suppose you could try leaving her with your Mom--maybe Ginger will love being an only dog. (Is your Mom pretty enthusiastic about Ginger or will she just be a nuisance?) If she doesn't do well, she could come live with you. But the social stuff is usually more important to a dog than the geographical.

And I'd try to have a professional evaluate her. I do mostly private consultations, and most owners call for help with "dominant aggressive" dogs. The vast majority of the time their diagnosis is well off base. (Yeah, the dogs have snarked or bitten or whatever, but the owner's understanding of what is really going on with the dog just isn't on-target.)

/Roo

[Vankarhi]

I do not believe the move will stress her, as I moved here almost 4 years ago when we bought the place and my staffies were 12 and almost 11. They did die within 6 months (I know that sounds terrible) but they were old my male was sick and was on medication and the female had dementia (which got worse when the male needed to put down). They would have died anyway even if we did not move here. They did settle in here and came camping with us while they were here. I had put of putting Sensei down for some time, but the time had come. what I would be more worried about is the fact that she bites and you are moving to an unfenced yard. She has lived at your mums place for many years now and that is home, familiar etc and she may or may not have many years left anyway. Your mum has said she would take her anyway. Maybe that would be best.

[PyscoFalcon]

Take them all with you and use the "invisable" fence.
http://www.invisiblefence.com/produc...door/index.asp

Also if your that bothered then get her a muzzle for when she's out of the house.

[indybirds]

Invisible fences are good, but they should never be used without supervision. A dog could suddenly decide that the shock isn't enough to stop it from chasing something outside the boundary of the fence.

[Vega]

Hey all, thanks for the advice...here's more on Ginger...

She's a chow mix (possibly a Shiba Inu mix). When she was a pup my brother would leave her outside in the afternoons. It wasn't until a few months of doing that that he caught the mailman macing her. She's showed no signs of aggression before that, she was still only 4-5 months old. Since then she's hated anyone approching the house. SHe bit a couple pizza guys, I don't believe she broke the skin...we never had lawsuits arise from her in otherwords. She has snapped at my sister, growled at various members of the family, but it's usually when she's tired and wants to lay down or when someone is at the door and we're trying to put her in another room before opening it. (which those strikes really aren't her fault--we put our hands in the way) I have a 5 year old and a 16 month old nephew that she's tolerant of. She has growled at them, but never snapped. Usually she does this as she's trying to get away from them. I don't know how she'd be with "strange" children playing on the street though, our neighbors used to tease her.

I'm going to look into those runs and see what I can do. I would prefer fencing, but only certain places permit that. My mom and Ginger DO have a bond and I know she wouldn't be neglected if left behind. Actually my mom kinda favors her.

[Vankarhi]

My husband works in a place called Battery World (they sell batteries - mainly) and he has seen a couple of people come in to get new batteries for what looks like the "invisible fence", and one of them said his dog (lives on an acreage) has learned to escape the invisible fence with no problems.

[The Outlaw]

I would leave her with your mom. I think they are old friends now and that's probably all that she really needs. You would feel very badly if you moved, built a fence and lost her in a year or so. I had a chow when I was young and she, too, would bite if people entered the yard without her consent. I just think they tend to be protective of their space. Also, as her eyes get older she may fear bite. That's what ultimately happened to my dog. We had to put her down when she hit 14 due to fear biting.

THE OUTLAW

[Roo]

I think of invisible fences as a last resort. For *every* dog, there exists some enticement that will be sufficiently exciting to get them to go through the fence. Sometimes the batteries go dead or weak and the owner doesn't realize it, and the dog gets out. Frequently if a dog gets out due to something exciting, they are not sufficiently motivated to return to the property.

And most importantly especially as regards Ginger: invisible fences do not keep kids/people off your property!

It's a last resort, and should only be used under supervision. And if someone does decide to go for it, *please* shell out the extra money and go with the actual "Invisible Fence" brand. They will come and train your dog to respect and understand the boundary. If you cheap out and don't do this step correctly, you will generally end up with an ineffective system, and will have wasted your money altogether.

I have to say, you have a dog that was maced by the mailman almost 12 years ago, which caused or contibuted to her concern and aggression toward people. Why didn't you sort this out *then*? And if you knew she had a problem with people entering her space, why on earth was she in a position (i.e. loose, presumably unsupervised) where she was able to bite a "couple" of pizza delivery guys?!?!? :eusa_wall

She has snapped at my sister, growled at various members of the family, but it's usually when she's tired and wants to lay down or when someone is at the door and we're trying to put her in another room before opening it.

Excuses, excuses. Doesn't help the dog, and it's this attitude that has put you in the difficult position you're in now (i.e. limited options for a dog with an untreated, poorly-managed aggression problem.)

(which those strikes really aren't her fault--we put our hands in the way)

Nope. Your fault indeed, but not for putting your hands in the way. Breaking up a heated dogfight is putting your hands in the way. This is just a dog that was never taught appropriate behavior toward humans.

I have a 5 year old and a 16 month old nephew that she's tolerant of.

So far...

She has growled at them, but never snapped. Usually she does this as she's trying to get away from them.

And she's a Very Good Girl for *only* growling. You folks, however, are setting up for a tragedy by putting the dog (who has already shown that she is a bit lacking in the bite inhibition department) in the position to have to be the one to tell the kids enough is enough, and allowing them to make her feel like she "has to get away from them." It is *your* responsibility to keep Ginger feeling safe and untormented (from *her* point of view), and to keep the kids safe.

You needed to have dealt with this behavior 12 years ago. Getting someone in to help you now--even though she is an older dog--could still help you to keep everyone safer, and Ginger happier. Growling and snapping at family members, and biting non-threatening strangers is not acceptable. A costly lawsuit (FYI many homeowner's insurance plans have Chows and Chow mixes on their list of not-covered breeds), plastic surgery for a little kid's face, and a court-ordered dead dog are not at all a far-fetched outcome for this situation.

So maybe she is better off with your Mom (since she's your Mom's favorite). Sadly, it appears that the issue isn't really so much which situation will stress her less, but which allows for the safest, most responsible management of the dog.