Lovebirds and distilled water

[Indy]

I have difficulty taking marching orders when it comes to my lovebirds. One local person who breeds lovebirds said "you ask too many questions" and suggested "just do what I say" when it comes to advice. Unfortunately for them, I often wish to understand WHY certain advice is given.

Take distilled water...

Someone in this forum said distilled water is bad for lovebirds.

They're not alone. Others have said the same thing. I asked someone at a pet store about it and they agreed, saying they heard "from various sources" that distilled water is "a no no." When asked WHY they said "I don't know, but just don't give them any."

I'm hoping someone with a scientific explanation can help me out.

Some gallon plastic jugs of distilled water in supermarkets are rated for use in appliances (i.e. irons, steamers and so forth). A few years ago, one of those news shows (maybe it was 20/20) covered the distilled water industry and demonstrated how not all distilled water is equal in purity. They showed how equipment used to distill water is washed with detergents and disinfectant chemicals, but not properly rinsed. Even distilled water rated for drinking, in food grade plastic jugs, was sometimes questionable.

Even the plastic is in question because the quality of the plastic varies (from food grade to industrial). Polymers in industrial plastics leach into food, thus, distilled water not rated for "drinking" is not recommended for humans. I can well imagine birds could become ill from this water over prolonged drinking.

I have the Tribest PureWise W10000 Distiller, which is a professional food grade distiller, described at this link:

Tribest Corporation - Purewise Distiller Minisite

I live in Silicon Valley south of San Francisco in an area known for its pristine well water (near Morgan Hill). Many years ago, back in the 1960's, there was some controversy about IBM and other high technology chip companies using chemicals that could possibly leach into the water. As it turned out, the main concerns surrounded chemicals leaching into municipal water pipes between the local water company and residential homes.

In the 1970's onward these concerns were put to rest with major laws and clean-up. I bought my home in 1997 and had the water tested. It is pure. However, the water contains what the water company insists is high levels of calcium (even with a salt-based water softener). This calcium causes toilet bowl rings and calcification around water faucet openings.

A little research revealed that some solvents from high technology companies contain particles so tiny, less than a few parts per billion. Conventional testing does not detect these particles. Living near computer companies and laboratories that are Silicon Valley's mainstream businesses, I believe in exercising caution.

To pay it safe, I installed full house filtration, and drink bottled water (only from the source such as Fiji from the Fiji Islands volcano, Volvic from a volcano in France and Eternal from the mountains of New Zealand). Due to a health condition I must drink lots of water throughout the day to remain hydrated so its imperative my water is pure.

I also use the PureWise W10000 Distiller for the water I use in my coffee (Tribest Corporation - Purewise Distiller Minisite). The unit generates 1 gallon of distilled water every 4.5 hours or 5 gallons a day, plenty for my drinking needs (handy if I run out of bottled water). I love this unit, the size of a coffee maker and very energy efficient!

To make a long story short, the water distiller I use condenses water in stainless steel pipes then passes the water through a charcoal filter. Before using the unit, I sterilize it and thoroughly rinse it to avoid chemical contamination.

A friend observed that birds from Africa will often take bird baths in the giant leaves and fronds of plants ("mother nature's water distillery") that capture condensed water from the highly humid rain forrest. This water is "distilled" in that it is pure H2O (even more pure than rain water since it is from condensation).

The water from my distiller generates distilled water in the same manner, condensing water through surgical-grade stainless steel coils. As the water drips into the gallon jug it further passes through a carbon filter to remove any gasses from the water resulting from the evaporation (a problem with early distillers). The resulting water is pure H2O without even traces of chemicals or organic compounds (zero parts per billion in other words). The water is more pure than even condensed water in the rain forest.

Someone mentioned you can essentially feed lovebirds what humans can eat. I kept wondering why they should not drink pure H2O from their bird baths or water dispensers? Yet it's supposed to be okay for them to drink tap water that may contain traces of municipal chemicals, residue from underground pipes that have cracks (allowing micro-traces of organic compounds which is one reason for mold in showers and toilet bowls)?

As a compromise, I fill their water dispenser with the same pristine bottled water I drink. I liter of water lasts a long time. However, I would prefer not to put tap water in their bird baths, because it is "bio-active" and causes mold in the shower and toilet. Also, the tap water contains a large amount of calcium from the underground well water that is the source for our area. The lovebirds get their calcium from their cuddle bone.

Two major arguments I've heard against distilled water for humans to avoid tap water:

1. Prevents humans from getting trace minerals found in water. (Counter argument 1: drink bottled water from the source provided it is not bottled in plants using filtered municipal water, but it is really bottled at the source. Counter argument 2: take supplements that contain trace minerals found in water.)
   
2. Distillation plants often wash their equipment with detergents and disinfectants but don't thorough rinse the equipment afterwards, causing trace chemicals to exist in the distilled water product. (Counter argument: use a modern home distiller like the Tribest PureWise W10000 Distiller with a condenser made of surgical stainless steel and a carbon filter. Make certain to prepare the distiller by properly cleaning, disinfectng and most importantly rinsing it thoroughly before use.)
   
3. Distillation plants often use plastic that is not food grade to cut down their costs. Non-food grade plastics are more porous (even though not leaking) and leach polymers and other chemicals into the water as they sit on store shelves. (Counter argument: again, use a modern home distiller like the Tribest PureWise W10000 Distiller with a condenser made of surgical stainless steel and a carbon filter. Store the water in food grade plastic containers like the jug sold with the distiller.)

Does anyone have any other scientific or logical arguments against true 100% pure distilled water?

A few other related questions:

• Is the absence of impurities bad for lovebirds?
  
• If so, why couldn't I buy the trace minerals from a supplement company and place a tiny amount per gallon of distilled water to approximate the trace minerals in natural lake or stream water?
  
• Also, we can rule out my babies not getting minerals from water. Aside from drinking condensed (nature's "distilled") water from large leaves in their native habitat, my lovebirds regularly peck on a cuddle bone strapped to the inside of their cage. Someone in another bird forum stated "cuttle bone also has magnesium, iodine and sometimes other minerals added that are good for our little babies." Even more, they absolutely love pecking on a similar rock that is found in their native African habitat that I purchased from a pet supplier, that contains even more trace minerals than cuddle bone.
  
• Therefore, I must ask whether the digestive systems of lovebirds detect that water is pure H2O (without beneficial impurities) when magnesium, iodine and sometimes other minerals added to cuddlebone is mixing with this pure water in their tiny digestive tracts?

Thanks for reading this far. Sorry if this is more info than you wish to know in order to answer the basic questions.

[KDK241]

I'm not sure exactly why you were told that. I was told to only give my birds distilled water because of the chemicals found in city water and the metals found in well water. We have well water and I know it is high in iron. It actually has a metallic smell to it sometimes. My birds get distilled water and they have a mineral block and a cuttle bone if needed. They won't even drink my tap water anyway so I guess I don't have a choice. (My mom came over and gave them water from the tap not knowing).

[birdymomma]

I'm not sure about like city water becuse of the chemicals i it but i know like well water and that supposedly it is the same but that chemicals can be asborbed into bottled water over time and of course there is the whole recycling issue...let me find that artical and i'll post it

[birdymomma]

here is a site i found for you to chec out
Why Purified Water is Bad To Consume, as is Distilled Water.

[birdlady49]

Originally Posted by Indy

I have difficulty taking marching orders when it comes to my lovebirds. One local person who breeds lovebirds said "you ask too many questions" and suggested "just do what I say" when it comes to advice.

Can't answer you about distilled water since I offer tap water to my birds (without problems). But I wanted to comment on the breeder who says you ask too many questions.

To me, the only one who would say something like that is someone who doesn't know the answer but doesn't want to be embarrassed and admit it!

[Indy]

Originally Posted by KDK241

I'm not sure exactly why you were told that. I was told to only give my birds distilled water because of the chemicals found in city water and the metals found in well water. We have well water and I know it is high in iron. It actually has a metallic smell to it sometimes. My birds get distilled water and they have a mineral block and a cuttle bone if needed. They won't even drink my tap water anyway so I guess I don't have a choice. (My mom came over and gave them water from the tap not knowing).

Thanks.

I found support on PetCareTips.net for giving lovebirds distilled water:

"Lovebirds should always have access to clean, fresh water. Don't use tap water. We recommend Steam Distilled water for its purity." (All About Lovebirds & Keeping Lovebirds as Pet Birds)

Thankfully I always end up following my intuition.

Fresh water is one of the greatest blessings of the western world. When I get a new house, I plan on getting stainless steel water pipes and an industrial strength distiller in the garage next to the water heater, that a friend mentioned seeing on a tour of a resort hotel (and surprisingly its not very expensive when you amortize its cost over a few decades of living in your house!).

One inexpensive device I use at the water main line (entering the house) is what is called a "main line filter." It is the first level of defense, capturing particles down to 0.5 microns in size that if ingested can cause disease including parasites. Amazingly, parasites find their way into the human body through organic particles in the water and a main line filter captures everything (including mineral and organic particles that wear down the pipes and stain sinks, showers and toilets, and sometimes tiny invisible worms above 0.5 microns in size, too small for the eye to detect in a glass of water and also swallowed during a shower). The main line filter is only the first line of defense of course. I connect a salt water softener to the hot water line (most people connect it to both hot and cold but this means you get salt in cold water including the outdoor sprinklers). Eventually all water will go through a large 80 gallon distiller powered by solar panels.

[Monica]

H2O And Your Bird: What You Should Know
Is bottled water really better than tap?
Hard water - How safe is it?
question about water

Tap water is filtered, treated, flouride added and cloronated.

Distilled a created from a process that removes everything; bactaria, minerals, and more.

Spring water has minerals that may be to much for the birds to handle.

Filtered water is the best IMHO. Bactaria, flouride, clorine, odors, and some metals. I use that for my fids.

POLLY'S DESK REFERENCE
DISTILLED DRINKING WATER
ORIGINALLY POSTED BY CAROLYN

Hi everyone,

Many of us are very conscientious about the diet that we provide our Eclectus parrots, without a thought to their drinking water. Others are confused by the many choices -- spring water, reverse osmosis water, distilled water, and others.

My birds have thrived on distilled water for many years. Many veterinarians recommend distilled water for parrots, especially for parrots with problems like toe tapping, wing flipping, and metal toxicity. I frequently hear from owners of chemically-sensitive birds whose vets have recommended the removal of all possible chemicals -- which includes replacing tap water with chemical-free water. Some birds "toe tap" due to painful joints (sometimes caused by gout) and distilled water can help to clear the joints of painful deposits.

This does not mean that all birds MUST have distilled water, but in the case of toe tapping, it is a good way to remove one source of chemicals while helping to remove the source of joint pain. There are other medical conditions that are aided by the provision of chemical free water.

Distilled water is generally considered the safest water for both humans and birds. There are other bottled waters available, such as spring water and water purified by ozonation, reverse osmosis, and other purification methods. These bottled waters often prove to be no better than tap water when analyzed, probably because of insufficient regulation.

Many people use tap water for their birds' drinking water, and fortunately, pathogens in tap water ARE eliminated by the chlorine added by municipal water companies. Nearly all tap water in the United States is treated with not only chlorine but with fluoride too, and some birds are sensitive to both these drying agents. These chemicals and the chemical compounds formed by the combination of the two never would be found in the water that parrots drink in their natural habitats.

THE BIG QUESTION -- MINERALS!
There is a common misconception that the lack of minerals in distilled water is a problem, and that distilled water "leaches" minerals from the body. These are not legitimate reasons to avoid distilled water for birds or humans.

The minerals that our bodies and the bodies of our birds need are found in foods. The minerals found in water are inorganic and since the body cannot assimilate most of them, they are stored as problematic mineral deposits in the body. The minerals that your body assimilates from water are such trace amounts, you would need to drink 50 gallons of water for it to be of any significance to humans.

"Distilled water does not leach minerals from the body. Distilled water is the purest form of water, the universal solvent. Pure water does absorb discarded minerals and with the assistance of the blood and lymph (mostly water), transports them to the kidneys for elimination. It is this kind of mineral elimination that is incorrectly referred to as
'mineral leaching'. Distilled water does not leach out beneficial body minerals -- it collects and removes only the minerals which have been rejected by the cells and tissues, which if not evacuated, can cause arterial obstruction, arthritic deposits and other potentially serious bodily damage."

WHAT THE EXPERTS SAY:
"The body's need for minerals is largely met through FOODS, not drinking water." American Medical Journal
------------------------------------
"The only minerals that the body can utilize are the organic minerals found in foods. All other types of minerals are foreign substances to the body and must be eliminated. Distilled water is the only water that can be taken into the body without any damage to the tissues."
"The Choice is Clear" by Dr. Allen E. Banik
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"Distillation, when combined with carbon filtration, will kill and remove virtually 100% of bacteria, viruses, cysts, and will remove heavy metals, inorganics; including minerals, radionuclides, particulates, and organics; including VOC'S."
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If you cannot switch to distilled water for your family and your birds, you might be reassured by the fact that the liver can detoxify a lot of chemical contaminants. However, the toxic load in our food supply, our water, and in the air that we breathe is significant, so anything that we can do to lessen the impact of toxins on our health, and the health of our birds, is a good thing. Using distilled water is an "extra precaution" that should be taken if feasible.

You can buy distilled water for less than a dollar a gallon in supermarkets or make it yourself at home with a tabletop distiller or the larger distillation systems that make enough distilled water for all household uses. I have a Gemini brand steam distiller that I bought many years ago. It costs less than ten cents a gallon to distill tap water, but a small distiller like mine will make only one to three gallons a day, which is enough drinking and cooking water for my family and birds but not enough for general use. Therefore, I use shower filters for bathing.

FACTS ABOUT STEAM DISTILLATION
www.nutriteam.com/distillerfaq.htm

Are distillers expensive to operate? These distillers use about 3 KWH of electricity for each gallon of water that is distilled. You can find your personal cost per gallon by multiplying 3 times the KWH rate in your area (generally between 15 and 30 cents/gallon). You'll probably find that it is a fraction of the cost of buying water at the store or having it delivered.

How should water be stored to ensure purity?
www.water.com/learn_about...30_faq.asp

Water should be stored in a cool (40 to 60 degrees), dark (away from sunlight) and dry (modest humidity-less than 50%) place. It should be as far away as possible from substances such as chemicals, detergents, cleaning supplies, gasoline, etc. Distilled water is so pure that it acts like a magnet, picking up odors that we cannot even detect in the air. These odors will migrate to the purest substance in the area. When it comes to long term storage, different types of water should be stored differently.

WATER CONTAINERS:
Many plastics give off toxins such as methyl chloride, a carcinogen which can leach into the water. Glass bottles or stainless steel containers are recommended for storing distilled water.

Water Distillers
CONSUMER GUIDE TO WATER DISTILLERS -- What to look for:
A water distiller is a big investment so it's important that you know the pros and cons of all the various brands.
--------------

If you have a water distiller, you can store the water in glass jugs. I clean and sterilize the gallon-size glass bottles from the organic apple juice that I buy. When I occasionally buy distilled water from the supermarket, I transfer it to the sterilized glass bottles as soon as I bring it home.

If you have been wondering about the best type of water for your birds, why not give distilled water a try?

Carolyn

[Indy]

Originally Posted by birdymomma

here is a site i found for you to chec out
Why Purified Water is Bad To Consume, as is Distilled Water.

A few of my observations based on the site you quoted:

Purified water is an active absorber and when it comes into contact with air, it absorbs carbon dioxide, making it acidic. The more purified water a person drinks, the higher the body acidity becomes. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, "Purified" water, being essentially mineral-free, is very aggressive, in that it tends to dissolve substances with which it is in contact. Notably, carbon dioxide from the air is rapidly absorbed, making the water acidic and even more aggressive. Many metals are dissolved by distilled water.

The bottled water (from source springs around the world I mentioned in my initial post to this topic) is sealed in food grade plastic 1-liter containers, free from contamination from the air. Therefore, supporting arguments in above quote are invalidated in the case of sealed containers.

The same is true with the water distiller in my original message. The food grade plastic container has a cap to seal it.

All bottled water and distilled water is stored in my refridgerator at 30 degrees, further preventing oxidation or "spoilage" from "acidic" atmosphere.

The most toxic commercial beverages that people consume (i.e. cola beverages and other soft drinks) are made from purified water. Studies have consistently shown that heavy consumers of soft drinks (with or without sugar) spill huge amounts of calcium, magnesium and other trace minerals into the urine. The more mineral loss, the greater the risk for osteoporosis, osteoarthritis, hypothyroidism, coronary artery disease, high blood pressure and a long list of degenerative diseases generally associated with premature aging.

I rarely drink these beverages except at occasional gatherings in lieu of alcoholic beverages. Often I will ask for bottled water (and usually I get a good quality "bottled at the source" water and not a municipally bottled water originating from Coca-Cola Company).

The rest of the article is built upon the theory that distilled water absorbs acid from the surrounding atmosphere due to carbon dioxide absorption. Therefore my rebuttal stands for the entire article.

As an after thought, it occurs to me that since we breath carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere, several things are worth considering:

• Carbon dioxide gets into our bodies when we drink even tap water filled with minerals.
  
• Even tap water left in an open container "absorbs" whatever is in the air, as evidenced by the slight "off taste" of a pitcher of water left in the fridge. Likely carbon dioxide is absorbed in even tap water, because I can find no evidence the laws of physics prevent water from absorbing carbon dioxide if the water contains minerals.
  
• Bottled water "from the source" (see my original post above) contains minerals that well water contains. Except the famous source springs contain additional minerals not found in municipal tap water, minerals sought by nutritionists and sought by travellers to natural areas of the world famous for their water. Therefore, how can bottled water "absorb" carbon dioxide and become more acidic than tap water when both contain minerals?
  
• The disadvantages to tap water (premature aging due to chemicals the water companies do not yet have the technologies to detect) far outweigh these alleged risks of distilled water.
  
• The human body "drinks" a quart or more of water a day from showering, I heard. The skin absorbs water. Therefore, drinking a quart of distilled water with a quart of water absorbed in the shower, is like drinking two courts of "dilluted" water (1 part distilled, 1 part tap).
  
• If we store distilled water in sealed containers and refridgerate it then oxidation cannot occur.
  
• Last of but least, minerals found in well water are absorbed into vegetables. If we eat organic vegetables from Whole Foods Market and drink distilled water stored in sealed cooled containers, the minerals in the vegetables and salad we eat will "mix" with the distilled water in our stomachs. If the article at the link you gave is accurate in describing the dynamics of distilled water, then the distilled water will lose its distilled properties in our stomaches BEFORE digestion. Therefore, our bodies will receive water from our stomachs that is NOT distilled and our cells will not get damaged from oxidation described in the article.

As for the environmental concerns of bottles, the solution is to buy food grade plastic water bottles (gallon and liter sizes) and occasionally rinse these with a little dish soap and a little hydrogen peroxide (to sterilize) then rinse vigorously with water before reusing. The same holds true of liter bottles from the store. One can buy 1 .5 liter bottled water "from the source," and reuse the bottles for distilled water made in one's distillation unit.

[Indy]

Great info, Monica! This should keep me busy...

[Indy]

It's starting to dawn on me, that there's no boilerplate answers (i.e. "Never use distilled water for your lovebirds' baths").

Rather, it's HOW you go about doing something:

• Type of distillation process used.
• How thoroughly and correctly the distiller is washed, sanitized and rinsed.
• Material used in storage container for distilled water: Food grade plastic vs. industrial grade plastic? Food grade glass container vs. other container not manufactured to store consumable liquid?
• Container is tightly sealed or left open - big difference!
• Temperature of environment where container is stored (impacting the physics of oxidation of the small amount of air trapped in sealed container at low temperatures vs. rapid oxidation with warmer environment).
• Frequency of changing lovebirds drinking water and bath water.

TIP: I use a water bottle with a red ball at the tip of a stainless steel "feeder" and placed it next to the open water source. The lovebirds now sip the water from the sealed bottle and this keeps the water much cleaner.